Thread: Lending Tools

I'd loan a hammer or screwdriver - my second rate stuff of course - but can't think of anything else I'd lend to anyone, except my dad of course.

The only person I'd trust in my workshop while I'm not there is my dad. A few old friends are welcome to come use my workshop under supervision. Anyone else I'd just do it for them.

Strikes me as how common sense ain't so common any more.

Ben,

Litigation Lawyers would not be causing such problems in court if the court had a bit of spine and said NO. It's not the lawyers fault even if litigation lawyers are all blood sucking leeches. If the courts did not give in to the pathetic claims then the first precedent would not have been set. Once you have that first precedent it's all over. ALL other courts are then bound by it. It's like this that keeps those firms advertising for people who weren't watching what they were doing to come and make millions.:mad:


Dan

Yes that is True. it has always been up to the courts to uphold the integrity of our law, however, it only takes one case to set a precdence.. just as it takes one leaky tap to undermine a well built foundation.

If you take a look at the bigger picture and realise who is in control here. It is up to a litagation lawyer to decide if a case is to be put before the the courts. The decision we would like to think was baised on a moral ground, however, as we all are seeing in the media that this is not so.

Once a Litagation lawyer with a whole law firm in support put their weight behind a claim then it is very hard for any court not to back down. Due to the large amounts of money available to them on completion (%50 on winning) They attract strong support.. hey OJ simpson got off didnt he?

a perfect example of this is that guy last year in maroobra beach diving under a wave between the flags and hit a sand bar and broak his back.. he sued the locals for 5mill for his own incompetence and won. No body even mentioned that he had been drinking?

So who sets the precedence in a court... A law firm does. A law firm stands to gain not only once from a case ( 50% not being enough for them) but the precedence set opens up many more doors for many other cases... Finally you arive in our legal climate today where we are no longer responsible for our own incompetence.

I do agree to some extent to the courts needing to put there foot down however the blame sits strongly twards the litagation lawyers themselves for the state where in today.

Ben, didn't the council appeal that $5,000,000.00 and win?
I know one did, not sure which one though. The courts decided that the plaintiff was under the influence of excess alcohol and responsible for his own actions and consequences.

The courts decided that the plaintiff was under the influence of excess alcohol and responsible for his own actions and consequences.

I recall from my basic law studies a few years back that, in the case of council responsbilities there is a duty of care on governments to take steps to prevent foreseeable hazards. In the cases of hazards in parks, beaches, etc the responsbile party needs to prove that they have taken reasonable steps to ensure that hazards are substantially reduced. This usually means signage, fences, etc. I remember a case where a supermarket did not clean up a liquid spill fast enough, a customer injured themselves by slipping on the spill and then winning damages. Spills were seen by the courts as reasonably foreseeable and preventable hazards (customer traffic) and the supermarket was negligent in not having a staff member clean up fast enough. I also recall a case where a dropoff in a park was signed and fenced by its owners. A inebriated woman decided to stand too close to the edge and fell off, got injured and sued for damages. The court decided against the woman because the owner had taken reasonable steps to reduce the hazard.

I purchased a Miniskaff last year and was warned by the maker NOT to lend it to anyone because of borrowers potentially falling off and then suing me. The maker said he heard of a case where a Miniskaff owner lent it to a mate who lent it on to someone who didn't put it together properly (missed out some bracing). The user fell of because the structure swayed due to a lack of bracing, although it was included in the lent kit but it wasn't installed. The bracing was described clearly in the instructions but the owner didn't give the instructions to the friend. The owner was sued for negligence for not providing the instructions for safe operation.

Where I have leased equipment from rental companies they have always shown me how to use it, provided me with the instructions and made me sign a disclaimer that I have/will read the instructions before use.

Lending any kind of tool that requires safe operating instructions that aren't obvious (usually powertools, hammers should be obvious) without providing the manufacturers manual is risky. If a friend borrows a tool and then injures themselves out of work for 6-12 months because of unsafe usage they will start to think of legal action once they start to miss their regular salary and the bills add up.

Regarding the guy who'd broken his neck diving into the surf, well there were recently two similar cases that made headlines, both won a compensation payout from the respective councils but both were overturned on appeal (here's one of them: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/n...A/2003/61.html).

It would be interesting to see a case where person A loaned a tool to person B, who subsequently had an accident and then sucessfully sued person A. Where does that leave a hardware store that sells a chainsaw to you with which you then go and cut your arm off?

As for loaning tools, my BIL has loaned me his belt sander and a 1/4" router. I guess that means I'm on the other side of the argument. It's an extended loan, meaning he'll get them off me if he ever needs them. From my point of view, if anything happened to them, I'd replace them.

After yesterday, I wouldn't even loan a hammer!

My wife inherited a huge chunk of concrete from her previous clothesline, and at our Aust. Day BBQ, friends mentioned that they had a not-quite-full skip ready to go.
So, SWMBO arranged that friend and I would put the lump into my car, drive it to friends' place, and thence into the skip.

When I learned of this plan, I cringed, as I haven't finished my mail-order levitation course. Anyway, the friend agreed that lifting into the car wasn't going to happen, so he took me around to his in-laws where he borrowed a sledge hammer and gloves.

42 blows later, he'd taken off one flake the size of a saucer, and had my wife trying to arrange some plan of "10 hits then swap", and me trying to recall our public liability cover.

The technique was to push the sledgehammer straight up, like he was pushing a ceiling tile into place, then pull down on the handle like ringing a bell, then pull the handle back at the last second so as to not splinter the handle. Horrifying to watch!!

Before this, I'd never really considered that there are folk out there who have no idea how to use something seemingly as simple as a hammer.

Cheers,
Andrew

Big sign in my workshop...
"The idiot who lends his tools is out"

I gained a lot out of reading the replies to the message and again thanks for your thoughts, there is amounting evidence/onus on the individual lending out the tool, and for those that lend out the second rate tools may be heightened because of the fact that these tools may suffer extreme abuse from various people lending them, opening an avenue of the tool being not in fit condition for use.

Point B:
I hired a thicknesser from a large hire company in Adelaide, they had three brand new thicknessers (makita), but only one was okay for use (not used yet), as the damaged machines were being repaired.
I put hundreds and hundreds and then some through that thicknesser that day and night(taking 1mm per pass) and it performed superbly. A proper understanding of machine practices ensures equipment and personal safety.

Point C: With the advent of cheaper tools being produced, it is affortable to those who otherwise previously could not justify the cost of a leading brand name tool.

regards

tony

All previous withstanding.
I have a couple of good mates who I would lend almost any thing too.
I know their skill level, have worked beside them, have the same taste in tools & the inclination to care for them.

& we all expect that if we bugger something, don't say a damn thing get it fixed properly or replace it.

Never lend a book,or wood mag, how many times have you had to ask for it back.?

I think you've all covered it well, dont lend as a general rule. except to trusted blood and mate.

I gave beautiful saw to my BIL and he let it lie in water until it rusted out. never again....

I agree with most of the "no way Jose"

Each time I have lent a tool, I regretted it.
From burnt or frozen power tools, to rust out wheelbarrows, from a severely dented tailgate on my Ute from opening it without taking the trailer off, to a destroyed chain on the chain saw. Even my block splitter I got back with a cracked handle and the sharp end was used to split a concrete path. My near new box trailer I had to go and pick up after 3 month of asking for it to no avail, only to find it full of green garden rubbish and sitting outside in the weather. Needless to say I had to repaint it.

When I visited a friend who borrowed my palmer micrometer and I discovered he was using it as a miniature clamp to glue back a piece of veneer that had come off his kitchen table, I decided to say no to lending tools, not so much for the cost it may represent but because I find it disrespectful to get a tool back that is dirty, dull, broken; a real slap in the face.

I still say yes to any request for help of any sort, but find elaborate excuses of safety or unavailability when it comes to tools. And mind you I don't make a living with my tools. If that would be the case I would have the perfect excuse not to lend not even an old hammer.

Mm perhaps I could keep a big box and throw in it all the discarded tools I refuse to use, like Chineese F clamps that do not line up or bend backwards, or one of those hardened hand saw that is not sharp anymore and offer them for borrowing. In fact I could even fill it with hand tools bought from Woolworths or Franklins ... yes definelty a good idea!