Thread: Luthiers, fill me in!

One of the members of this board, (and apologiies to the person in question 'cause I can't remember who it was ) did a (three week I think it was) residential course in NZ on building guitars.

It sounded like pretty goood value, so hopefully they'll see this thread and respond.

Originally Posted by Stickmangumby

I'm seriously considering this as a profession but have absolutely no idea how to get into it, so any feedback or ideas or knowledge would be greatly appreciated.

I looked at the Maton site a few months ago and saw an ad to recruit new staff as luthiers. The prerequisites were cabinet making I think. If you want to do it professionally, then contact some luthiers if you don't get a response here and ask what skills and experience they require and do what you need to do to get there.

You could also check out the Project Guitar forums:

http://projectguitar.ibforums.com

You need to register to post, but it's worth it. They also have a web site with all sorts of information:

http://www.projectguitar.com/

Regards,

Michael

Stick,

I know that Gerard Gilet (sp) in Sydney used to run classes but whether that is still the case I don't know. Considering your location, I would be contacting Maton to see if they may have any postitions vacant there. Making a guitar isn't difficult........making a good guitar is, and making an excellent instrument is a skill reserved for a very few.

In the photos section here there are some pics of a recently finished guitar and the builder does mention a good reference book on guitar making although there are numerous other publications worth considering, also do a Google search for the Music Instrument Makers Forum........there us a wealth of knowledge available there.

Apprenticeships? No, no such beast I'm affraid. Most luthiers can't afford to pay an apprentice - at least none that I ever heard of. You could apply at Maton for a job, but I don't know if you could call yourself a Luthier after being there for a few years, production worker might be closer - making guitar parts rather than hand building guitars

This doesn't mean you can't become a luthier, there are a bunch of short courses you can do, but they're mostly overseas, expensive, and usually only run for a few weeks. Gilet's in Sydney have "classes" but they cost about $120 per hour, they told me you'd walk away with a reasonable understanding of building guitars plus the guitar you made, but don't expect much change from 8 grand. You can also just go there to do specific jobs, and do the rest at home, they are pretty flexible, and a nice bunch of guys. Doesn't help you much in Vic tho.

Most of us buy a few "how too" books, get involved in the online communities (OLF, MIMF, plus a few others) start building, learn from our mistakes, and once you've built ten or so you can start to think about selling them, and maybe a few years down the track when you're consistantly getting good results, you can think about doing it full-time. I've only made one so far (you can see it in the pics section) and I've had a bunch of people asking me to make one to sell to them. But I'm not good enough yet by far. It may only take one bad deal to ruin your name as a maker and that's it, game over.

Don't be discouraged by all this, if you really want to do it, you can. The lack of opportunity represents a freedom to go you own way. Just read everything you can get you hands on, and start building. I think that the hardest part is getting over all the BS about how difficult it is, and deciding that "I can do this". Even the best luthiers make the occasional screw up, what sorts the men from the boys is the recovery. Most mistakes are repairable, sometimes it's just a matter of thinking outside the box.

Have a look at gilet's website, they sell books and luthery supplies, and they'll send 'em to you anywhere in Australia cod, so you don't even need a credit card. They have a list of books on the luthery supplies page that are all pretty good and well worth the read.

Hope this helps,

Paul

Stick...

There is a well known luthier in Margaret River, Scott Wise. I'll post his link below. If you e-mail him, I think he'd help out with some info. I believe he did an apprenticeship somewhere "over east" (Victoria maybe?). Scott is an all round wood guy as well, who collects timber from all over the world. His instruments are really beautiful.

http://www.slwise.com.au/

Richard

Melbourne has a number of luthiers and I wouldn't call Maton one of them since Bill May sold the business in the mid 80's.
Have a talk with Fretted Instruments in Fitzroy and they may be able to point you in the right direction.
I know there was a luthier in Albury some years ago, a Scottish bloke who made a guitar that looked very ordinary but sounded magnificent, unfortunately I cannot recall his name but Kevin Williams of Wooragee who builds violins and upwards from native timbers may be able to assist.

I dont think that it is a trade as such.I reckon down in Tassie they have a course at the woodwork school.

When I made some enquiries a while ago,I was kind of told to start off doing a joinery course and then go from there.(Mind you finding somewhere to do a joinery course in Sydney is like pulling teeth!)

Any way start reading up on the subject because there is a fair bit of info around ,then give it a try.

I found that there are so many people around that are more than willing to help you that it does make it a lot easier and fun.

Go around some of the guitar shops / repair places and ask some of the techs.

Its a bit like playing -Practice,practice,practice and you will always get better.

Cheers

Greg

PS I am no expert on the subject by any means but I love guitars and woodwork and its great to combine both.

Thanks for all of the feedback and linkage so far everyone Most of those sites looked absolutely fantastic at first glance! When I've got a few more hours I'll get stuck into them.

I'll make some enquiries to some local businesses and see what I can come up with.

I would love to be doing this kind of work full time, but I've clearly got a LONG way to go! Can anyone recommend a specific book that is worth a read for a total woodworking beginner, keeping guitar construction in mind?

Thanks a lot

The bible of guitar building, written with the rank amateur in mind, is Guitarmaking tradition and technology by William Cumpiano and John Natelson. You will not find a better book on guitarbuilding. There are other books, and some of them are very good. Bob Benedetto's "Making an Archtop Guitar" is also a great reference. Then there's Kinkade's "build your own acoustic guitar" that explains some newer techniques the others don't touch apon. None of these books is the be all and end all reference (though Cumpianos is by far the closest), rather, they all offer some technique or other that the others don't. It's up to you to find the technique that works for you. You could get ten beginners to read all these books, build guitars, and they'd all do it differently - I'd also expect that nine of the ten would build pretty good guitars.

Once you get your head around the basics, you'll want to read "The Big Red Book of Lutherie I-III" from GAL, which really gets into the nitty gritty, GAL also has a bunch of other great volumes availble plus a library of plans.

The first two books are availble at Gilet guitars, Borders, and Dymocks. The third one you might have to ask a bookshop to get in for you, the big red books are available through GAL or Stewmac

If you just want one book, then you should buy Cumpiano's GuitarmakingTradition and Technology - It'll set you back about $85.

Happy reading.

In case anyone is interested, I've actually found a guitar making course in Melbourne. It is run by Phil Carson Crickmore, and information about it can be found at here.

To quote the website:
On completion of the nine-day intensive course, you will have handcrafted a high quality instrument using the finest materials in a creative and supportive environment and gained a rare insight into the world of one of Australia's leading Luthiers.

You have the option of selecting the type of guitar you wish to make from the following:

* Dreadnought
* Jumbo
* OOO
* OO

The courses are held at Carson Crickmore Guitars' premises where you will have the opportunity to observe a successful business involved in guitar building and instrument repairs whilst listening to comments and assessments of instruments. You will also learn about the qualities of wood (including tonal qualities) from Carson Crickmore based on his broad interest and experience in timbers and their uses in instrument making. Whilst some woodworking experience is useful, it is not essential as you will be trained in using traditional hand tools and small hand-held power tools in a safe manner.


Typically, the materials for your instrument will be on the bench when you arrive and you will start creating your own instrument on the first day of class. You are welcome to take photographs and keep a file of your progress in creating your own unique instrument.

Tuition fees for a 5 day intensive course are $3,300 including materials.

Tuition fees for for a 10 day master class are $4,500, not including materials. For further information, please see our contact details.

It sounds quite good, but also way expensive :eek:

Personally I think my money would be better spent doing a cabinet making course or apprenticeship and then trying to get work. This way I would have better woodworking skills, and a certificate/diploma, rather than just a once off experience in guitar building.

Anyway, I just thought this information might be helpful to someone else out there

Thanks very much for the linkage to those books Paul, I'll check them out some time this week.

There's a luthier in Swan St. Richmond, southern side near Burnley Rd. I reckon it would be worth having a yarn to them.

Personally, I think you're correct about doing a good woodworking course first, but that's just my opinion and may well be wrong. Talk to a luthier and see what they recommend.

Good luck

Stick,

I think that may be the wiser option, also, have a look at Aust., woodworking mags in your local newsagent, I'm sure that in the back of one of them there is a comprehensive list of books/publications that are available and don't ignore the book(s) by Aussie luthier Jim Williams.

Iain,

As I recall, Bill May didn't sell Maton, after his death, the reins were taken over by his daughter and her husband and last time I was there they were still at the helm.

His daughter, Sue Ellis, was/is a classical teacher and had no part of the company, the business was run by his nephew Neville, I thought it was sold to him but maybe he only ran the show.
I studied with Sue for some time before I started teaching music with TAFE and knew Bill but have not had any contact since 1986.
I did not know he had died but like I said I had lost contact after he moved north.
Did Sue remarry?

Good mornin' all............

Iain,

I've been using Matons for over 40 years and consequently always had an interest in their origins, etc., although I was originally told about the "ownership" history by a friend who has dealt with the company for over 35 years. A quick check on the company history (at www.maton.com.au), confirmed what I have always believed which is that it is owned and run by Bill's daughter Linda and her husband Neville Kitchen.