Thread: help about japanese plane blade

hi thanks for the answers if I have some new information I will tell you

bom chanse

javier from argentina

Originally Posted by correntinos

thaks neils for the reply I m studing the posibility or forge some laminated tools , thanks a los

javier from argentina

I attended a 3-day seminar taught by Yataiki. I learned several things about laminating, among them:

1. You need a good flux for binding the metals. Yataiki used miso.

2. You need to be careful about the ratio of hard to soft metals. Too much hard and it wraps around the soft. Too little and it doesn't cover the base. Might be a good idea to start examining blades online, looking at the join line, at how the hard steel is or is not extended up the side bevels, gaining an appreciation for the expert work.

3. The Japanese forge, called a fuigo, is ingenious. You can see how to build one at Box Bellows

4. You need a helper, either a real person/slave or an automated hammer

5. It's a lot of work

You can get the steels you need without too much trouble. Also, keep in mind that in the old days western blades were laminated.

Pam

I haven't been there lately, but this site was always informative for me:
Home Page

hi people , someone can tell me what is the "paint" using in the japanese tools for the black colour???

thanks a lot
javier from the other side of the world

Originally Posted by correntinos

hi people , someone can tell me what is the "paint" using in the japanese tools for the black colour???

thanks a lot
javier from the other side of the world

Hello again Javier,

Almost always, on Japanese tools, when there is a black colour to the metal, it is the result of the heat from the forging/hardening process forming iron oxide on the surface. When you see shiny steel, it is because the oxide has been ground or polished off (or the metal was protected from the (oxygen) air so the oxide won't form - one of the purposes of the clay [or miso] coating).

Pics thanks to Japan-Tool Japan Tool

I had emaied So-san with the question about miso. To his knowledge miso is not part of the mixture for yaki-ire (hardening).

It must obviously work as a flux however, as Pam has relayed.

Originally Posted by Sheets

Hello again Javier,

Almost always, on Japanese tools, when there is a black colour to the metal, it is the result of the heat from the forging/hardening process forming iron oxide on the surface. When you see shiny steel, it is because the oxide has been ground or polished off (or the metal was protected from the (oxygen) air so the oxide won't form - one of the purposes of the clay [or miso] coating).

Yes, and the black oxide formation is aided by quenching in oil. Valued not only for its appearance but black oxide is more resistant to rusting than the polished metal surface areas.

.....

Neil -- got advice for what to do when the oxide gets worn/scuffed off? I just oil it (generally choji) -- is there a better method?
Thanks,
Becky

Yes, Becky, that's all I do. Keep them oiled (camellia or clove or just plain pharmaceutical mineral oil). Over time they develop a grey patina which I associate with old, well maintained, tools.

.....

If you want to get the black look back and do not want to heat the blade (heaven forbid), you can use cold gun blue. I use it to touch up my tools and it looks great. Available at a gun shop near you.

Gadge

Thanks, Neil and Gadge. Good advice. Much appreciated.

thaks a lot for your answer

Originally Posted by Sheets

I had emaied So-san with the question about miso. To his knowledge miso is not part of the mixture for yaki-ire (hardening).

It must obviously work as a flux however, as Pam has relayed.

A real expert, Dave Burnard, has corrected my faulty memory. The miso was used by Yataiki for hardening.

Pam