Thread: Japanese knives.

Hi Ern,

Yes, I have some stone marks on the lamination steel that I will also leave to progressively get ground out. Wish I could duplicate the Japanese professionals with their finish, it looks so good.

Neil, Oops, I got the dimension wrong, my small sashimi knife is only 200mm (8") and I can't remember the make but think it is a cheaper produdtion type. It is still beautiful to use.

Full blade view:
Attachment 140612

Kanji view:
Attachment 140613

My other sashimi is by Fuji Jiro I think, (maker or trade mark?) not sure. At 260mm it is quite a weapon, dangerous one in my hands.

Both catch a thumbnail at 90 degrees. Nice. The fish should be very afraid, I am.

I have a Matsumoto Usuba that needs some work, (also secondhand) but am not confident enough to give that one a go on the stones just yet, don't want to stuff up quite an expensive knife. It practically cuts through a tomato by just resting it on the thing, it has some real heft to it.

I did go a bit berzerk when I first got it, and like Ern cut lots of stuff up for the fun of it.

Cheers
Pops

Sorry, Pops, I also don't recognise the maker's mark on that sashimi knife. I think you are right that it looks more like a production knife, but if it works well... so what!

Reckon the Fuji Jiro would be a nice knife. The Niigata area knife makers have a well deserved reputation.

Can understand your cautiousness about sharpening the Matsumoto. The Usuba is such a delicate edge. If you get to it before it becomes too blunt you can touch it up with a fine stone (8000 or finer) otherwise you have to go back to the lower grits where the grinding is more prone to shift the geometry of the blade around before you become familiar with it.

I'm envious of your Matsumoto...

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Hi Neil,

Yes the 200mm sashimi is a great knife, for me anyway, not being a master chef or the like.

The Usuba is having a lazy life at the moment, so not wearing that fine edge. I use a very cheap Santoku (as well as the Sashimi knives) and desipte being cheap as chips it has a very sharp edge and is super light.

This cheapy has a sandwhich of hard steel between two outer layers of softer steel, quite unusual I thought, but I like it a lot too.

I will keep practicing with the water stones on the cheaper knives for a while yet Master Neil, until this Grasshopper can boast some modicum of skill. And then the Matsumotos will come out of hiding.

Thanks for the info here in this thread Ern and Neil, appreciate it. I do love Japanese knives.

Cheers
Pops

Yes, the laminations are beautiful, and starting with a well-sharpened knife provided me a lesson in how ignorant I was about edge quality.

Just as an aside I will say that it's very easy to ruin the gentle curve on say a French cook's knife on the Tormek. It needs just a very light touch, at least for someone who is used to pressing hard to get a hollow grind on a skew chisel for example.

I hope I'm not dragging this thread off topic. I re-read it last week and subsequently bidded on:

Japanese Damascus VG10 gyutoh chef knife Western HDL - eBay Cutlery, Kitchen, Dining Bar, Inside the Home, Home Garden. (end time 27-Jun-10 15:07:19 AEST)

and won it. I've messaged the seller to ask about some of the options on the auction and recieved no answer. In fact I messaged them prior to bidding about the blade length and got no answer.

Two things then:

Has anyone here experience with the seller ? It's only been a few days but most serious ebay sellers are pretty quick getting onto stuff.

Is that knife a good choice for general kitchen duty ? I realise I need to be careful of bones etc but it seemed to fit the bill with what had been recommended earlier in the thread.

I got my Nakiri from him Damian; his replies to emails were a bit slow but reliable.

I got the waterstone option too which IIRC Neil advised was a very fine natural polishing stone.

Thank you for your reply.

I read the section on your whetstone. I was thinking it would be handy to give the knife a lick before putting it away. I believe you two concluded it wasn't coarse enough to actually sharpen a dull knife, but I probably have other things to do that. I've got some of that fancy fine sandpaper, the psa 3m stuff up to some 1000's grit.

I am in no hurry, but I don't like oweing people money, bit paranoid about that. Be happier when the bill is settled.

Sure.

FWIW with my Nakiri I went #1000, 4000 and 8000 on ceramic stones. I still don't trust myself not to dub over the edge with the small natural waterstone.

Originally Posted by damian

Two things then:

Has anyone here experience with the seller ? It's only been a few days but most serious ebay sellers are pretty quick getting onto stuff.

Is that knife a good choice for general kitchen duty ? I realise I need to be careful of bones etc but it seemed to fit the bill with what had been recommended earlier in the thread.

Hi Damian

Lots of us on this forum have purchased blades and stones from Nakaoko-san (330mate_com). Sometimes he is away on temple building work and may not get back to you immediately, otherwise he is reliable. Only challenge for me has been communicating with him in English, but then his English is exceptionally good compared to my non-Japanese.

On the knife, yes, good choice for a Westerner buying their first Japanese knife.

Enjoy!

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Originally Posted by rsser

IIRC Neil advised was a very fine natural polishing stone.

See earlier Post 16 in this thread.

Nakaoko's Iyoto stones vary between rough (#600) and medium fine (#5000) . Iyoto are more of an Aota stone that is used before the final fine polishing stone. A #8000 man-made stone would definitely be finer but would give a different finish. Many Japanese will use the lower grit man-made stones but move over to the natural stones for the last two stones to avoid the deeper persistent scratches that the man-made stones create.

Ern, assuming your Iyoto is #6000 I would try it out after your #4000 man-made. Your knife may look duller (misty) after using it but if close to #5000 it will give you a longer lasting edge than the #8000. If the Iyoto is only #4000 or lower I wouldn't finish with it, your #8000 will give you a better edge.

I'd be happy to assess your Iyoto for you should you want me to do that before you try it out.

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Originally Posted by damian

I read the section on your whetstone. I was thinking it would be handy to give the knife a lick before putting it away

Damian, noticed that the Iyoto stone offered with your knife is only 40mm x 40mm.... reckon that would be a bit too small to accurately touch up the edge. Don't think I could manage on anything smaller than about 125mm x 50mm, but you may.

Noticed that Stu at Tools from Japan has a King S-3 #6000 going for AU$26.83, here. Those Kings are quite soft, but if you keep it flat the #6000 should keep a good working edge on your knife. You also have to dunk the stone for a while before you use it, but if you do that as you start to use the knife that does not become an issue.

The ceramic stones are better but there is quite a jump in price as you can see from Stu's site. If you thought you could go with a ceramic, perhaps the Sigma Kitayama #8000 polishing stone for AU$72 would be a good stone for keeping a very keen edge on your blade.

And, the natural stones that I like are a quantum leap in price and complexity from there again....

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I don't suppose there is a sharpening service in brisbane that would be able to do it justice ?

I'm getting paranoid about maintaining this knife now

Thank you for the replies.

I wouldn't trust sharpening services to give you a polished edge. And the only time I sent a knife out to have a chip ground out the guy made a hash of the curve.

Really, it's not that hard learning to do it yourself. Just google 'sharpen knife' and you'll find plenty of info. It helps if you can find someone to show you the moves too.

Yours is a double bevel; just two fingers on the bevel to push it flat on the stone, hand on handle and do the strokes.

I'm glad i stumbled across this because I'm after some good Japanese knives myself.
I have not looked at all the links but what I have read has already enlightened me.
I used to be a meat worker so i have a appreciation for a good knife and cannot stand anything but razor sharp knives.
I will let you know if or should i say when I buy some.