Thread: New woodworker advice

If you are really new to woodworking, I would recommend getting something cheap. The reason being is that you could stuff up the tool as you are learning and you could probably spend your remainding money on other tools to get a better overall result. Clamps come to my mind.

Cheaper tools are more resistant - you don't loose accuracy with a bit of rust or knocking over here or there.

Gidday, and welcome,

The question you need to ask yourself is: if I buy the cheap version of tool X, will I just want to upgrade it within a short time?

If answer = yes, then save up a bit longer and get a quality tool.

If you would be happy with the limitations of a cheaper tool (generally a bit less accuracy, repeatability or reliability) and think you can be happy with that for a while, then absolutely save the cash and get the cheaper one.

Do you need an SCMS? Could you get a mitre saw instead?

Do you need power tools? Could you get handtools instead?

As you are planning to do renovations, then I assume power tools will be the go, but it's worth considering the field before committing to such a major purchase.

Best of luck,
sCORCH

If you need to do repeat compound mitre cuts I feel the TS would not be the tool you need. You have to play around a bit to cut compounded joints on the TS whereas the SCMS is made for the job and will do the work with ease once you work out your angles to cut. I guess some of the guys here are able to work out the angles and do it on a TS one way or another but I find it easier to use the SCMS for that purpose. Again depending on how many compound mitre joints you are going to use in your projects would dictate how much you would be prepared to spend on the right saw for the job. I only have a cheap Riobi and that does the work for me but then again, I dont make many compound mitre joints if I can help it. but I guess if you are making those joints repeatedly then the higher cost of buying a more expensive saw could be justified. Just my two bobs worth.

Originally Posted by munruben

Again depending on how many compound mitre joints you are going to use in your projects would dictate how much you would be prepared to spend on the right saw for the job.

Point taken. I guess I need to do a little bit more research on what kind of techniques I will be using most commonly in my projects. There is a short list of two projects (workbench and a single room reno - new gyprock, new skirting, new window, new door) but after that the sky's the limit.

I already have an interest in personal computers and custom builds for those. I have been hoping to experiment with some custom furniture that incorporates some of my PC design ideas. Just for a hobby. Unfortunately, my carpentry skills are not what you would call well rounded, and my knowledge of furniture craftsmanship is abysmally lacking. But, you have to start somewhere. Based on your comment i suppose I will have to do a little more reading on some furniture construction techniques and hopefully make a more informed decision that won't have me spending more time adjusting my equipment than actually getting any work done!

Thanks.

-John

Originally Posted by GrahamC

If you are really new to woodworking, I would recommend getting something cheap. The reason being is that you could stuff up the tool as you are learning and you could probably spend your remainding money on other tools to get a better overall result. Clamps come to my mind.

Cheaper tools are more resistant - you don't loose accuracy with a bit of rust or knocking over here or there.

I understand where you're coming from, but cheap tools have tended to be quite a disappointment for me in the past. What I am asking is I can i get something half decent for my budget, or do i need to spend a little more.

In my experience cheap tools don't loose accuracy because they never had it to begin with Of course ymmv, and certainly a good tool won't make me a good woodworker, but I am pretty careful with my gear, especially so if it is a bit pricey.

Good point on the clamps. I'm gonna have to set aside some dosh for a few of those handy extras.

Cheers,

-John

Originally Posted by sCORCH

Gidday, and welcome,

The question you need to ask yourself is: if I buy the cheap version of tool X, will I just want to upgrade it within a short time?

If answer = yes, then save up a bit longer and get a quality tool.

Haha. Exactly how i think about. And the answer is always YES! Question I can't answer atm though is what do I need to buy so that I won't want to upgrade straight away? It's a tough one when you have so little experience

Originally Posted by sCORCH

If you would be happy with the limitations of a cheaper tool (generally a bit less accuracy, repeatability or reliability) and think you can be happy with that for a while, then absolutely save the cash and get the cheaper one.

Do you need an SCMS? Could you get a mitre saw instead?

Do you need power tools? Could you get handtools instead?

As you are planning to do renovations, then I assume power tools will be the go, but it's worth considering the field before committing to such a major purchase.

Best of luck,
sCORCH

.

Defintely want power tools. I plan on following on from my immediate projects into some stuff for fun. Woodworking is definitely a skill i want to develop.

Good comments from everyone. Thanks for the advice.

-John

Hmmm window and door making is something I plan to do as well. I also need to get a mitre saw. I'm off to national capital to get something cheap there next week.

The cheap tools and the comment about accuracy was a bit toungue and cheek as you said it.

I once made a gate to keep a dog in for a place that was meant to be demolished very soon. Needless to say that three years later it is still vacant and standing (the house that is). I made the gate out of an old internal door, non weather resistant chipboard, chicken wire, shade cloth, garden stakes and nails - I found everything lying around the place - mostly under the it. It seem to hold up for the 6 months I was there. Work mates criticised it to death saying I devalued the entire suburb. The gate is still there and it looks like it it no longer swings ok (just droops), but it is still in use symbolically to keep things out. It is in keeping with the house in a strange sort of way. I probably did the new owner (developer) a favour as the place is over a 100 years old and it might have being heritage listed. Anyway, I degress.

All I'm trying to say is horses for courses and if you really want something perfect even though it is not called for (I'm not an expert mind you), you will probably need to go for the expensive tooling.

i've been putting stuff together for over 30 years now and here are a few observations.
quality hand tools without motors should have some money spent on them. the dawn brand clamps come to mind my father bought them at least 40 years ago and are used every day. tape measures, i but the cheapest i can find, the lufkin brand are by far the best to use but they get dropped,lost,run over or borrowed as easily as the cheapies and for the price of one good one i can buy 4 cheapies (so there's always one in the workshop,on the forklift,in the bobcat or car) as for tools that are 240v drills,saws and the like,go and talk to tradies. 91/4 inch circular saw you'll find most chippies have the makita. but alot of it i found if you spend good money on items you use often you will get your moneys worth

After a quick review of the book on building your own custom doors and windows, he recomends intially a good 10" table saw and a good router. He is also the type that says save your pennies for quality and maybe go to a workshop to use quality tools before you can afford the good ones.

Mind you, windows and doors seem to actually have to be acurate and strong for them to work. A workbench seems to be more about how heavy and stable it is rather than anything else. The only timber framing I have done is for a backyard dunny out of an old timber paling fence and I managed to achieve acceptable structural quality with just a circular saw and a square. I have the best site toilet in my suburb!

Then, a good jointer, when you get serious a good shaper and planer.

The guy does not seem to think that a bandsaw is nescessary unless you are doing curved work. He says a drill press is also not really needed but is useful.

He says a radial arm saw is good for rough cutting but not accurate.

He says a chop saw is accuate and fast. Maybe you could just get a chop saw rather than something sliding - or am I missing something?

He says other hand powered tools like drills, hand planers, sanders etc are great for this and that.

Welcome to the Forum John,

Why dont you buy a Ryobi slide compound saw which i think there is still a 30day satisfaction guarantee try it out & then buy a dewalt which also has a 30day satisfaction guarantee & work out which one you prefer & if they justify there price

Hi John,

It really is going to depend on the type of projects you end up wanting to do. I have a 10" Hitachi SCMS that I love for building & renovation work, but it only sees use for rough cutting when doing fine woodwork. If you want to continue on to fine woodworking, it would be better to get quality tools. If you want to do carpentry, renovations, garden projects then the cheap tools may do you fine.

However, the dilema you face is that buying cheap tools now will lead to dissatisfaction as you progress & you will want to replace them with better quality/more reliable gear. Thus the money will be down the drain, as you won't get much, if any, of it back when trying to sell cheap stuff. And you may end up frustrated & disappointed with the results from cheap tools. From bitter experience I find that it is better to bite the bullet & buy good quality tools up front. Premium tools don't tend to devalue much - just look on eBay & see how much people are paying for 2nd hand Festool, Lie Nielsen etc. If you are committed to persevering & growing with woodworking, I would go for quality.Quality is appreciated long after price is forgotten.

I venture to suggest that any table saw that fits into the $500 - $600 range will also be a dissapointment. And, as others have mentioened, it is not likely to be versitile in helping with the projects you mention.

Here is one suggestion (but will not fit your initial budget) - a Festool TS55 saw & a Festool MFT/3 will give you a huge amount of versatility & provide many of the capabilities of both a SCMS, a table saw, a panel saw & other things beside. It is ideal for room renovation work, cutting sheet goods for built-in cabinets & is accurate enough for fine woodworking. It is portable, so you can take it to where you are working & it all folds away so it does not take up much space. You can also get a vacuum system that collects nearly all the dust generated (I use my TS55/Vacuum system in the house when doing minor work such as replacing doors, fitting built ins etc & do not get heated complaints about the mess from my wife anymore). If you can't afford the saw & the MFT, a saw & guide rail will provide a good deal of versatility.

If your budget does not strech to this, then you could look for a second hand Triton 2000 system with the Triton cirular saw (not available new anymore). Not as accurate & not as versatile as the Festool system, but many people have been very happy with these (including me), particularly for building/renovation. With care, you can get furniture grade results as well.

I have justified tool purchases by looking at what it would cost to get a tradesman in to do the work. Cost savings "pay" for some great tools. The same approach when looking at hiring tools. A weeks or so of hiring stuff is often not much less than buying good kit - and once bought, you have it for life.

Good luck.

Hi John
With regard to a sliding compound mitre saw - I bought a Rexon from Glenfords tools several years ago - around the $400 mark I beleive. It looks just like a Makita!!!

It has done the job for me - cot for the 2nd grandson - bed for the 1st grandson, roof renovations, workbench construction etc.

After a year I bought a GMC mobile table to mount the saw on - great idea - no more carrying the saw!!

Admittedly not cabinet quality - but it does all I need.

All the best,


Wallace

BTW, here are a couple of links with some good info for the Festool MFT system:

http://www.festooljunkie.com/catalog...view%20OPT.pdf

http://www.festoolusa.com/media/pdf/...tion_table.pdf

(I don't have any affiliation for them, just a very happy customer!)

1. You might like to look at this thread ... https://www.woodworkforums.com/showth...nduction+mitre


It is about an induction motor (= quiet) SCMS for $418 that I was thinking about myself. There are some reviews on the related retailer's site that gives this machine a good rating on accuracy.


2. For many months, I have been drooling over the Makita LS 1214 myself and swore that when the Father's Day catalogues appeared, if I saw one with that saw on special I would whizz into Bunnings and ask them to exercise their price guarantee. I did that this week when Glenfords advertised the machine at $999. Bunnings honoured their promise (quite cheerfully) with a price of $899.10 so I bought the machine.

When Bunnings realise that a competitor's sale is on, they lower their prices to be just below the competitors for the duration of the sale so they cannot be hit for their price guarantee once that happens. So if you want to take advantage of their strategic decision to offer such a guarantee, you need to move very quickly on the day that the competitors' catalogues arrive. 'Tis best to subscribe for such catalogues by email.

So the point to this posting is that there is a very acceptable SCMS available within your budget but if you want to go down the route of another brand, then just await the Christmas catalogues and be willing to move instantly as soon as they arrive in your mailbox.


3. BTW, I have just about wet my pants with delight when I have used the Makita LS 1214 in this first week. I am just using it for hobby work and it makes my previous use of a Mark 3 Triton workbench in crosscut mode seem ridiculous. It is an awesome machine!


4. In relation to accuracy, Roger Gifkins , of Gifkins dovetail jig and renown fine box making skills, now uses his 10 inch Hitachi SCMS exclusivley for accurate cutting of the timber for his fine box making. He says that he takes a while to get the machine set up to do exact cuts and after that he only uses it for square cuts but he demonstrates at the woodworking shows just how he can cut very small pieces of wood very accurately and safely with his SCMS.

He says that he hardly uses his table saw any more for such fine work. See some comments on his website here ... http://www.gifkins.com.au/Custom%20Fence.pdf



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