Thread: Tcs184 Laser Circular Saw

I think you'll find there are differences, below is the link to the Triton 184mm saw.
http://www.triton.com.au/product.php?id=32

The size of the motor would be the first difference, it's weight may be another. They may look the same but I doubt if your 3+ year old GMC had a magnesium alloy construction. I also doubt if its bevel capability went as far as 55 degrees.
Take another look and get back to us all here and tell us the differences

Originally Posted by Gorgina Harris

Did I buy a re-hashed GMC product?

Sorry, I didn't notice this question until afterwards.
The answer is probably yes due to this saw being brought out after GMC bought Triton from Hills. However, you have bought a Triton and Triton has always been known for its tools having different teatures to most others on the market.

So, to summarise:
Sure, other tools have lasers like Triton and GMC.
The use of Magnesium Alloy(please correct me if I am wrong) is a new thing, making tools stronger and lighter.
I haven't seen many saws with a max. bevel of 55degrees.

If you still aren't convinced and if it hasn't been used - take it back...

Hello George,

Thank you for your quick reply. I have checked the wattage of the motor and they are identical (both 2000W). My husband has used it and says that even the magnesium on the Triton unit makes very little difference to the performance of the saw and cannot see the advantage of a lighter magnesium Triton saw.

The difference in price between the 2 units is around $80 (Triton more expensive). I do not see the value of this magnesium to demand an $80 premium, especially when both units performed exactly the same.

Quite honestly, I feel that the magnesium is a gimmick and that I have been ripped off.

I am dissapointed.

We eagerly await comment from the orange-caped crusader!

Carry Pine

The $80 difference could also be due to inflation.
If you are not happy though, take it back, tell them you thought you were buying a different more superior product, and would like a refund. Bunnings are usually quite good, and will refund.

If have noticed as a general trend that all products from China decrease in price. I bought a GMC 75 piece router set for $99 and 12 months later it is selling for less than $70.

I have been "quietly looking" for a good circular saw for over 12 months becuase I know how fussy my husband is with his tools.

Honestly this tool is going back.

Can somebody please recommend a good laser circular saw?

If you limit yourself to a saw that has a laser you are significanly reducing the pool of saws you can pick from.

A laser on a circular saw is not a terribly useful feature and certainly one you can do without. So unless hubby must have the laser for one reason or another, you cannot go wrong with any of the major brand 184mm saws including makita, hitachi or dewalt.

USEFUL features on circular saws include the weight of the saw (the magnesum alloy bases reduce weight), the amount of runout (this is the degree the shaft moves in/out, you can test this at Bunnings by pulling on the nut that holds the blade, the least movement the better), the sturdyness of the fence, ability to connect to a dust extractor if he is planning on using the saw inside but more importantly how it feels to hold for the person who will be using it.

I must admit that I own the 9 1/4inch triton circular saw and that in my opinion it is one of the best 91/4 saws you can buy. It is however heavier and more expensive.

Also ONE thing to remember is that if something goes wrong with a triton tool or you lose an accessory you can order a replacement part from triton. You cannot do this for most of the cheap saws and although you certainly can with the better brands replacement parts tend to be very expensive.

regargs

Marios

Gorgina,

Like selecting a computer, you need to think about what the saw will be used for.

Festool make some wonderful tools, German designed for professional use. If your Husband is only goin to be using the saw around the house now and then, you would be better off buying something cheaper.

Things I look for, aside from the features mentioned above are adjustable stops for 0 degrees. Some saws have nothing, others have a grub screw that is accessed from under the base plate and others have a screw that is accessed from above the base plate.

If the saw is to be used in a table at all, a set screw that can be accessed from above the base plate will make setup easier than the other 2 options.

In Japan, many saws have a blade break. This means that as soon as you take your finger off the trigger, the break stops the blade from spinning. Though this may increase safety, I have been told that it takes a toll on the motor.

I don't sell the 184 mm Triton saw in Japan, so cannot comment on its features, nor its relationship with the GMC Model. It is fairly common for power tools to be sold under differrent brand names. Frequently, even if the plastic moulding on the outside is different, the innards come from the same factory.

If using a saw for a long period of time, the weight of the saw directly affects fatigue. This is why Magnesium is hailed as a breakthrough. It maintains the required strength, however is much lighter. It only applies to some parts of the tool, however if you are using a tool all day, a few grams here and there can make a difference.

In Japan, Hitachi is seen as superior to Makita, however Makita has made good progress in recent years.

Most people who have the larger Triton saw are happy with it. You really need to be doing a fair bit of woodwork, or need a high level of accuracy to justify it, but most never look back.

Steve

Thanks for all your feedback. My husband uses his tools a lot and swears by the quality from Triton (the whole workshop is filled with it). Hence the reason I took a "stab" at the new laser/magnesium saw thinking it would have the same quality as the other triton items.

The comments my husband said about the triton circular saw were:
1. The laser is useless during a bright day and you need to work with special laser glasses (which incidently fog up)
2. The laser sure enough guides you, but a cut is only as accurate as the operator's skill level
3. Good quality tools are manufactured in Taiwan, Japan, Germany, USA and Australia.
4. Triton is now sourcing products from China, therefore, they are not manufacturing themselves and sub contracting their work (i.e. losing the quality control).
5. China is known for its DIY quality power tools and yet is being passed on as a trade quality tool.
6. Warranty is only 12 months and yet it is identical to a GMC (DIY quality) tool with 24 months 30 day satisfaction guarantee.
7. Spare parts do not exist for this product, therefore, after 12 months of warranty you pray that the tool does not break down otherwise you lose your money.

Because of all these, I have taken the saw back and replaced it with a reliable Makita unit - this bought a big smile to his face.

I hear your comments and the frustration behind them. Most of us on this and other forums have either felt the same at one stage, or read of similar emotions many times before.

For the benefit of clarity, I hesitantly offer my humble comments, without wishing to offend, or create on on-going, non-productive dialogue.

The comments my husband said about the triton circular saw were:
1. The laser is useless during a bright day and you need to work with special laser glasses (which incidently fog up)
This is true. Any review of laser guided power tools highlights this fact.

2. The laser sure enough guides you, but a cut is only as accurate as the operator's skill level
This is true. The laser provides a line of sight that gives the user an indication of the way the saw is pointed. It is not a laser controlled saw.

3. Good quality tools are manufactured in Taiwan, Japan, Germany, USA and Australia.
Close. Don't know of any DIY power tools made in Australia. Many of the leading brands are now being produced in China. Even the big Japanese brands are moving into cheaper parts of Asia.
Japan, once famous for producing cheap stuff, has now become too expensive for the Japanese to produce there and so a large amount of manufacturing is going off shore.

China's manufacturing base has a far higher level of hands on work and hence the uniformity of quality control is not as high as automated plants.

At the Hardware show in Cologne, the question that buyers from most countries are interested in is not "Where is it made", but "Who designs it?" and "Where is the company that is marketing it based?"

Note with interest that "Taiwan" is included in the list of quality producers. It was not long ago that people were up in arms when they discovered that Triton was sourcing product from Taiwan.


4. Triton is now sourcing products from China, therefore, they are not manufacturing themselves and sub contracting their work (i.e. losing the quality control).
Triton has always sub contracted some of its work out. This is good Supply Chain Management. (Did you know that Sara Lee no longer bake anything?)
In the early days, parts for the workcenters and other products were either sub contracted out, or produced or modified in-house.
The Triton Router, big saw and Steel Cutter have always been manufactured under licence in Taiwan.

Some of the non-power tool products are now coming out of China, for the simple reason that the majority of customers are more price sensitive than they are country of manufacture sensitive. Now that Triton is being sold in more countries, being "Australian Made" is not as big an advantage in export markets.

Frankly, in Japan, being "Australian Made" is almost a negative. The Australian reputation for quality control is not very high, in spite of what common feeling may be.

5. China is known for its DIY quality power tools and yet is being passed on as a trade quality tool.

Bosch Blue, is now predominantly manufactured in China. Large organisations are now either working closely with Chinese plants, providing their own "Quality" tooling, or setting up their own plants.

In the interests of being open and honest, I would agree that the percentage of quality issues out of China is higher at the moment that for Taiwanese product. The price difference however forgives a lot of sins.


6. Warranty is only 12 months and yet it is identical to a GMC (DIY quality) tool with 24 months 30 day satisfaction guarantee.

Can't comment on this, as not familiar with this product, or it's detail.

7. Spare parts do not exist for this product, therefore, after 12 months of warranty you pray that the tool does not break down otherwise you lose your money.

This situation will most likely increase. It is the case with quite a range of tools now. Bosch Green is one. Simply put, it is cheaper to replace most tools than it is to repair them. How many of us have upgraded a computer instead of replace a fried CPU or motherboard.

Note that you don't lose all ofyour money either. You have had 12 months of use out of the product.

What is the warranty on Makita tools in Australia?

Disclaimer.
I import and distribute Triton tools in Japan. Am not employed by either Triton or GMC. My opinions are my own, and are based on 5 years work as an importer, wholesaler, distributor, demonstrator, trainer, translator of manuals and maintenance trainer of Triton products.

I have no engineering background, nor do I have a trade apprentiship. I do however visit Hardware shows around the world frequently and invest a large amount of time on learning about my industry of woodworking tools. Many of my opinions are based on conversations with industry insiders, including product designers, engineers, distributors, buyers, sales managers and customers.

Every tool has its strengths and weaknesses. It is my hope that through this forum, customers can make a more informed decision before they buy, so that they may maximise their satisfaction and enjoyment from their wood working, be it with Triton, Makita, Festool, GMC, Bosch, Dewalt or Black & Decker.

If any of my comments are interpereted as a personal insult, I appologise as that is never my intention.

Hope 2007 is a safe and satisfying year for you.

Kindest regards,

Steve Liston

Steve,
that's one of the most balanced posts I've seen in a long time. Also your disclaimer is one of the most complete I've ever seen, now you don't have an engineering background or a trade but I reckon you must have a law degree!

Mick

Well done Steve, a great response..... whether or not I agree with the content (and I don't really have an opinion), you were balanced, informative, educational and polite.

Dear Steve,

This is Craig (Gorgina's husband responding). You have presented a very thorough response (no doubt about this) and thank you for the feedback.

I have always believed from my personal experience that motivation entices trialability which develops an attitude thus creates perception therefore resulting to brand image.

This is why I am loyal to Triton because it's roots are Australian and I much prefer supporting our local manufacturing industry and our talented workers, rather then sending profits overseas. This motivation drives me to be loyal to Triton.

The trends in global manufacturing are transparent:
It started in Japan, then moved to Singapore, then to Taiwan and now the flavour for industry executives is China, India, Vietnam, South America....far away from Australia.

The reason why companies go to China is "profit" and who loses out.....hard working Aussies and their families.

My backround is in design/engineering with a master's degree in marketing. I have consulted to factories in Australia, Europe and China. Honestly, my eyes have seen things in China which I cannot begin to describe. A 70 year old man, grinding the flashing (excess metal) off the edges of a metal die cast, crouched on the ground, with no masks, no breathing operatus.......A young girl was holding a piece of newspaper to prevent sparks flying into their faces and the best thing was; all of this was happening outdoors, monsoon rain pelting down, extension cords underneath the corrugated iron work area - an open shed.........but that's not all - the best is yet to come!!!!

This factory manufactures for RYOBI, METABO....just to name a few.

I have seen the profits involved in the sourcing industry........similar circular saws to the Triton Magnesium unit can be bought for around US$50 (AU$70) directly out of China and yet as a consumer I paid a premium price because it's Triton - no thanks.

I fully understand that companies need to go to China to survive and everybody is doing this.....classic example: Triton is now going to China and the writing is on the wall - this will continue.

Has my perception of Triton changed....absolutely!!!! towards the negative. If it comes from China - no thanks, I love my Aussie made stuff because it provides job security to families. I would definately pay the premium for Aussie made.

Profits go elsewhere, instead of re-investing in our manufacturing, growing our industry, developing the platform for export markets and our most valuable asset - our people, not overseas people!

As you can see I am very passionate about Triton, I have been loyal, they manufacture fantastic products, but if it comes from China - put a chinese brand on it.

I totally respect your comments regarding global industry trends and I agree with you. Please do not take my comments as negative, but I refuse to pay a Triton price for a Chinese product.

P.S. I was told the Triton steel cutting machine and the TRA001 router machine is coming out of a factory called DURQ in Taiwan.

Thanks
Craig Harris

Craig,
Well done, I am impressed - no mention at all of GMC. Kudos to you. If Triton were still Triton/Hills the powered stuff may still come out of Taiwan but there would be no "new" products like your short lived 184mm Triton saw. No small router, no jigsaw, no this that, the other.