Thread: Card Scrapers vs Scraper Planes

Dion - I don't often disagree with Derek, but I have to make a couple of exceptions in this case.....
First, any old screwdriver will turn a hook unless it's a real dud cheapie. Scrapers are not all that hard, I can't remember exactly what on the Rockwell hardness scale, but it's not much different from what your average driver is. The process of forming a hook actually work-hardens the metal, making it a bit more durable (all the older instructions on forming the hook suggest you work the edge back and forth a couple of times to make sure you do work-harden it).
I freely admit to reaching for the nearest thing that will do the trick when in a hurry, and have made plenty of serviceable edges with plastic-handled el-cheapos (though I have to admit to never trying a pinion-shaft before!). OK, I do prefer my modified file for a really good edge, because it's very smooth and hard and doesn't 'drag' the edge, so the harder and smoother the burnisher, the better.
(And I dunno what they use for abrasives over in the sandy country, but you certainly don't need to anneal a file to grind the teeth off to make a burnisher - all regular abrasive materials I know of are considerably harder than any file ever made!)
If you want to hit the wrecking-yards for a burnisher, just ask for an old engine valve - haven't used one myself, but saw that as a 'handy hint' many years ago, and see no reason why the shaft shouldn't make an excellent burnisher, as suggested.
There really isn't any mystique to card scrapers - just give it a go and you will be surprised how easy it is once you get it right. In my experience, you tend to turn too fierce a hook when you start, which means the scraper has to be leaned too far forward to 'bite'. I've introduced quite a few people to scraping over the years - some get it almost instantly, some take a bit of fiddling, but everone gets it after a while if they persist!
Cheers,
IW

Damn - Rob beat me to it - much more succinct, and well-said!
Avagooday!

I bow to Ian. He makes very good points (I'm not sure I agree about the hardness of a file, however).

Regards from Perth

Derek

Take Ian's advice. Scrapers have to be one of the best kept secrets, satisfying to use, quick great results and results you would be hard pressed to get using other methods.

My only regret concerning scrapers is that I only started using them seriously in the last year or so. Now those beautiful curly grained timbers can be used without having all the ugly tearout craters. You can sand them out but using scrapers you can avoid them.

You've got a lot to answer for mate! Ok so I'm weak, I got onto the Lee Valley site yesterday to order a Flush plane and after reading your comments about the scraper kit I thought I'd take a look at it. Well the plane should be here in about a week AS WELL AS A BLOODY SCRAPER KIT!
In all seriousness, thanks for the lead. If I hadn't read your post I'd have never known about it, a damn good deal.
Thanks again
Termite

There have been many threads on this subject and many many views and opinions but I have to say that I think Dion has heard all of em in this one. I too agree with the majority a card scraper will go anywhere you want to take it - the Stanley 80 and others will not get close to a verticle edge so you will always need a card scraper. You will develop muscles in your thumbs and fingers that you never knew you had with a card scraper but at the end of the day you will come to love those fine shavings and the beautiful finish you will achieve with practice.
I practiced by stripping every architrave, picture rail and skirting board in a 2 bed period house and refinishing in a natural stained finish. They were all mountain ash!!! and I didn't have the #80 back then :eek:

Good Luck

Jamie

Originally Posted by derekcohen

I bow to Ian. He makes very good points (I'm not sure I agree about the hardness of a file, however).

Eh, Derek? You're easily intimidated!!
As someone else said above - this is a place for opinions, & although I might sound like I have strong opinions (I do, I suppose!) I've been around long enough to know there's always a better way to skin the proverbial cat, so I do like to read other people's ideas and advice. I respect your opinions because they always seem well-reasoned and backed up by experience. You're a very worthy adversary!

PS - I have annealed old files a few times and re-hardened them to make turning tools - it seemed to work ok, though I freely admit that it was probably fools' luck - my metallurgy training comes from mucking about with the forge on the farm as a kid. I like to make scribes out of old chainsaw files, for e.g. and for that I just grind a notch where I want to snap it off, then chuck it in a battery drill and run it back and forth over the white wheel to clean off the teeth, taper and shape it. Then polish with a couple of grades of emery. And old industrial hacksaw blades make great marking knives, etc. - some of those are really tough stuff, but the white wheel eats them up, too, with no problems....
Cheers,

I have the Veritas tri burnisher, although I have not used it for any curved stuff, ie walking before you run etc. It works and I have used it to put hooks on a scraper I used on a nasty piece of hard dry burl. I too dit the obvious and put too much hook on when I first started, however I am over that now.

Thanks again to all who contributed. Now the question is do I go for the Lee Valley package (had a look on the Web site today) or do I just get the Variable Burnisher and some card scrapers from Timbecon? I've got a big slab in the garage that will eventually become a desktop and I've never met a slab yet that wasn't stubborn and catankerous when it came to grain direction and tearout! The LV package looks pretty good when you add up the individual items and compare them to Oz prices.

Could anyone tell me what the turnaround time from Lee Valley's website in the States to Oz? My wife reckons when she orders stuff from the US it takes about 3 weeks to get here.

You could do a whole lot worse than order from Lee Valley. Their customer service is nothing short of excellent, and if you order a few things the total (including shipping) is going to be around the same as you'd pay within Australia. I generally go for the air mail ship option. They quote it at 2-4 weeks, but it generally turns up in slightly over a week.

That said, check www.mik.com.au as well.

I have the tri burnisher and it's great. I also have their curved scraper set - I like the one with the gentle curves for scraping small areas.

My take would be, assuming you can spare the cash, go for the full kit and order it direct - variable burnisher or tri burnisher, curved & straight hand scraper sets, and their cabinet scraper. And toss in a bunch of light items you can use while you're at it - abrasives, knobs for jigs, brass ferrules etc. They're cheap on that stuff and it's not going to increase your shipping by much at all. Oh, and get their catalogue

It's real easy to get very carried away browsing the Lee Valley catalogue

Originally Posted by DarrylF

It's real easy to get very carried away browsing the Lee Valley catalogue

Not only that, but one of the principals is a contributer to this board. Indeed to this very thread.

It's interesting that the companies that have a good rep on this board, ie LV, MIK, Dieter Schmid all contribute to the forums.

I've never seen a post from Carbatec until today and that read like a mission statement to me.

Timbecon? Deafening silence.

My 0.02


Craig

Wot Darryl said.

I find it takes about 8 days for an order to arrive. Quicker than any Australian company I have tried, I haven't ordered from MIK, but they get heaps of praise.

MIK are good and deserve the praise they get.

I don't receive wages from them but my wages go to them so I suppose in a way I do work for them.

My only criticism of MIK is that because of their excellent service I keep spending more money with them - can't resist.

Hi guys.....has anyone tried either the Veritas or Lie-Neilson scraper planes?
anything overally different between the two. And any comments would be greatly appreacited.
Sinjin