Thread: A little preview

I wish to perform my own evaluations. Please pass them on upon completion of your analysis. Thanks.

They look nice derek but I refuse to use any tool that doesn't have a 240v plug on the end of it

Derek obviously doctored the photo - here is the original.

Derek,
It seems as though there is little difference between the LA smoother, and BU smoother, other than one can shoot with the former, and the latter has a 1/4" wider blade, and 1/2 inch shorter sole (and comes with a HA blade). at a glance I would think that the LA smoother with an extra high bevel angle blade would make the other redundant. I'm very interested however to know what differences you find in performance and feel.
and just out of curiosity, do you get to keep all the stuff rob sends you?
-Ryan

Hi Ryan

As you noticed, the BU Smoother is dedicated to smoothing and cannot be used on a shooting board. It is a heavy mother but, without meaning to say much now (because I have not had an opportunity to even hone the blades), has a very different centre of gravity to the (smaller) LA Smoother. The BU Smoother, LA Jack and the forthcoming BU Jointer will all share the same blades, so it will be possible to swap these around. The standard blade is the 38 degree (= 50 degree cutting angle), with a 50 degree (= 62 degree cutting angle) available. I have both.

Do I get to keep the LV planes I review? If I want (or I can donate them). Until Friday, however, the only LV plane I have been given for review was the LA Jack. I was so impressed with the performance that I went out and purchased the LA Smoother. And that has subsequently been proved to be a wise decision since it outclassed everything I own, including the HNT Gordon range (that is, when blade cutting angles are the kept same). I have been on record with predictions about the future design and development of performance handplanes, and the new BU Smoother is very much in keeping with my ideas (not that I had anything to do with this, although I was asked to suggest which blade bevel angles to choose. This turned out to be the case, but I'm sure it was simply because others were on the same wavelength).

The important thing in reviewing in situations like this is to be as scientific as possible. That is, include objective measures to balance the subjective impressions. It is impossible not to be biased in some way, but I am used to dealing with this type of decision-making conflict all the time in my day job. The trick is to be aware of one's biases, and account for them. One of the things I have learned about Rob Lee (for he was the one to approach me in this regard about a year ago following my article on a Stanley #62 I restored), both on this forum and on a number of others, is that he is very open-minded and is not defensive about criticism. I do not run my reviews past him beforehand. For example,I am still in the process of evaluating the new LV Honing Guide MkII. My initial impression, based on its use with plane blades, was extremely favourable, and I said as much. Others who had the opportunity to try it out as well (at a sharpening workshop I ran recently) came out with equally positive experiences. Later I tried it on chisels, and this proved to be a mixed result (I shall be coming out with a more complete review very shortly, so will not go into this here. Search the website for the two posts I made). I did pinpoint the weakness in the MkII (I'm sure others did so as well), which I published, and within weeks LV had rectified this with a small modification. They sent me the replacement part, and I was able to determine that my concerns were no longer an issue. The Mk II is now great with even narrow chisels as well. Mine was a pre-production version (and the first off the assembly line), and all the production Mk IIs are fully operational.

I know that I have answered more than you asked, but I can read into the unspoken question, and it is one that has come up before with others in my position. Bottom line - I will do my best to be objective.

Regards from Perth

Derek

Derek,

I truly wasn't questioning your objectivity. your unbiased observations come through loud and clear in every review (that's why I have an MKII honing guide right now, and i suspect it's also why rob sends you the stuff). take my question as an expression of my jealousy, not doubt of your objectivity.
on another note, now that i have a LV LA jack and LN LA smoother (each with extra 48 degree bevel blades) i rarely use my HNT gordon trying and smoothing planes. i just can't bring myself to get rid of them though. they are just so beautiful and well made. look foreward to the review.

Derek, I only just occured to me that now now your HNT smoother is redundant you can:

Sell It to Me!

Sell It to Me!

Sell It to Me!

Cheers

Originally Posted by vsquizz

Derek, I only just occured to me that now now your HNT smoother is redundant you can:

Sell It to Me!

Sell It to Me!

Sell It to Me!

Cheers

Hark! Methinks I hear the plaintive cry of the Oomeesmoother Bird!

Look squizz, if you want one that bad, I'll sell you mine OK. Just mail the cheque for $500.00, plus handling, shipping insurance etc, and I'll send mine straight back.

Cheque's in the mail Grant, TRUST ME...

Cheers

Originally Posted by derekcohen

Friday afternoon and the postman delivered two review planes from LV, the new Bevel-Up Smoother and Scub plane.

I have included pictures below. For comparison, the BU Smoother is flanked by the LA Jack and LA Smoother. The second picture includes the LV Scrub alongside the Stanley #40 Scrub.

Reviews will be posted in due course.

Oh life is so hard!

Regards from Perth

Derek

G'day Derek,

Talk about "life being hard"... How the blazes does one get someone like LV to provide 'free' kit like this; they look just wunnerful. I think I'll have a little whinge about now. Ok, feeling better Do you get to keep them? No, better not tell me...

Seriously, though. I've been looking a Veritas and (can't really afford/justify, but I'm only looking, right?) Lie Neilsen block planes. As I'm strictly an amateur, and not yet all that good, I was wondering if you'd recommend one or the other? I know I'll probably never make 'real' use of such lovely goodies, but it's a hobby, and hobbies are about feeling good. Not sure what the 'camp kommandant(ress) will think though!

Cheers,

Lee Valley verses Lie Nielsen?

This subject could easily become the longest debate on this forum. And the reason for this is that they both are superb in what they do but do it a little differently.

LN stand for bringing vintage designs to a new height, surpassed by few in quality and looks. Their entire range is jewel-like, serious tool . And on top of this, the performance of the tools (planes, saws and chisels) are out of the top drawer.

LV stand for innovation in design, for thinking outside the square. If it were not for LN, the quality of their tools would have no rival. As it stands, they are easily the equal of LN with respect to quality.

Where they are different is simply in the cost of some materials (and please do not misperceive this statement as suggesting that LV use materials of a lesser quality than LN - this is not so, for example they use the same ductile iron), such as LN's use of bronze. However, this is reflected in their respective pricing, with LN asking much higher prices, and with LV clearly the winner in terms of value-for-money, sometimes amazingly so. Then again, many buy LN just because they are drop-dead gorgeous. LV have the more modern design, with form dictated by function. You either love them or hate them.

In performance, for bevel down planes, LN probably have an edge. For bevel up planes, LV are simply streets ahead. This is not to say that LN LA users should immediately swap for LV LA planes. The LN planes are tremendous users - just that the LV are stupendous.

I own both LV and LN planes. I would not change one for the other. But before this begins to sound like I am sitting on the fence, both my "modern" block planes are by LN - the bronze #103 and the LA #60-1/2. And I love them so!

Regards from Perth

Derek

Originally Posted by derekcohen

both my "modern" block planes are by LN - the bronze #103 and the LA #60-1/2.

And I love them so!

OK Derek
a few days ago on another forum you spoke about your case of mistaken block plane identity.
Given your experience with both the #103 and now a #60½, if you were transported back to that wet Friday arvo in Timbecon and presented with both the #102 and #103 what would your choice be and why.

I have a #60½ and are debating whether to get a #9½ or a #103.

ian


PS to stay sort of on topic, when will we read your first impressions of the new toyl in use?

if you were transported back to that wet Friday arvo in Timbecon and presented with both the #102 and #103 what would your choice be and why.

Hi Ian

The short answer is I would choose the #102 if it were to be my only block plane. The reason is that my primary use of a small block plane would be planing end grain. What my experience demonstrated was that the #103 could plane end grain extemely well. Still, I would expect a LA block to do better still.

However, if I already owned a low angle block plane (especially one as fine as the LN #60-1/2, as you do), then my choice would be the #103. It has the advantage of being such a great all rounder, and I like the fact that it is so compact (where the #9-1/2 is the same size as the #60-1/2).

Here are a few other notes to consider.

My vintage Stanley #65 knucklejoint block plane is the same width (1-5/8" blade) as the LV, I believe, and wider than the LN #60-1/2 (1-3/8" blade). The #65 has a Hock blade, cost about half (or less) than the #60-1/2, and planes end grain better than the LN! Of course, if I drop the #65, it is no more. The LN would escape unscathed. Perhaps after a few more weeks of using and tuning the #60-1/2 the positions may be reversed.

I also have a Stanley #18 knucklejoint block plane, which is the forerunner of the #9-1/2. I still use the original Sweetheart blade, and this has a bevel of 35 degrees, producing a cutting angle of 60 degrees. One sweet mini-smoother for small sections of tearout or tricky face grain.

Regards from Perth

Derek