Thread: more scraped planes

Interesting what you learn I was imagining a scraper being pulled towards you like a scraper plane. Is the guy in the video actually pushing the scraper? or pulling? to me it looks like pushing although it did cross my mind it might be illusion?

Yeah, look at all 3 vids. It's a pushing thing. Michael the Magician can say more ;-}

Originally Posted by jmk89

Thanks ern and mic.
I looked at the website and it isn't there. So I've sent an email off to Sandvik to see what they have to say for themselves. Will report back.
If worse comes to worst, I may just buy an Eclipse scraper from Blackwoods and learn how to sharpen it (which is what I have done with most of my metalworking - I still use HSS rather than carbide for lathe tools).

Jeremy you'll have to ring and talk to someone there, it isn't a product kept in stock, so doesn't appear on the web page.

Originally Posted by kiwioutdoors

Interesting what you learn I was imagining a scraper being pulled towards you like a scraper plane. Is the guy in the video actually pushing the scraper? or pulling? to me it looks like pushing although it did cross my mind it might be illusion?

Yep it's pushed, although you can pull it towards you in some instances... apparently. It is the arris between the face and edge of the insert that does the work. The edge and face are at a slight obtuse angle in hand scrapers, I think there is a schematic here:
What type of Hand Scraper to use???? - Practical Machinist - Largest Manufacturing Technology Forum on the Web

Cheers
Michael

Originally Posted by rsser

Michael, I'm wondering how you check for flatness with a dial gauge.

I don't have a metal lathe as per that YouTube vid or a milling machine

Hi Ern,
Let me say at the outset, I don't check flatness with a dial gauge per se. I don't have a mill or lather either, but the flatness part of scraping just comes out of doing the transfer from the known flat. The way I use the dial gauge highlights localised regions of runouts. So here's what I do...
Here's a photo of my dial gauge, it is part of the a-line-it kit:
Deluxe A-Line-It Alignment System - In-Line Industries
Attachment 136007
I set it up as you see. I only use it after I have a fair portion of the sole flat as judged by my Academy Saws straight edge and light behind (and certainly when I get a reliable surface plate, I won't need to keep an eye on things with the straight edge) Holding the bar flat against the flat part of the sole, the sole itself becomes the datum. Then I can slide the bar and dial around and check the run out of say the toe and heel or localised hollows such as in front of the mouth of the 4 1/2 I did. Obviously if the sole were convex, pressing on different areas of the bar will quickly show somethings wrong as the dial jumps around, won't tell me what the run out is in absolute terms ( as you point out, you need an independent datum). If the sole were concave the bar is likely to bear on two points and not move, therefore not be highlighted on the dial, this is why it only works in conjunction with my straight edge. It works quite well for localised areas.

Thanks Michael. Makes sense.

I'd been wondering about the plane on its cheek on the drill press table, dial gauge at 90* off the chuck, and sliding the plane against a low fence past the gauge point. That involves some assumptions too. I can see myself disappearing up my fundament with flattening regressions.

What do people think of the idea of dropping a plane off to a decent machine shop and getting them to skim it flat? I have an old 5 1/2 with a bit of pitting in the sole, so I figure lapping by hand may require a bit too much time and effort.

Originally Posted by NZStu

What do people think of the idea of dropping a plane off to a decent machine shop and getting them to skim it flat? I have an old 5 1/2 with a bit of pitting in the sole, so I figure lapping by hand may require a bit too much time and effort.

I think it will be expensive! I dont think the pitting will affect the planes use as such in terms of flatness unless its very severe. I my opinion lapping most planes by the usual methodologies is sufficient for most. I cant see how a pit here and there will be bothersome. lapping is to flatten the sole not to remove pits

The idea of skimming wasn't so much to remove the pitting as to achieve maximum flatness with minimum effort. I know a few people so it might not necessarily cost too much at all...

Acc to what I've read, machines still can't reproduce a careful scraping approach. And few machine shops are set up to do planes and not a few make a cock up of it.

Originally Posted by NZStu

What do people think of the idea of dropping a plane off to a decent machine shop and getting them to skim it flat? I have an old 5 1/2 with a bit of pitting in the sole, so I figure lapping by hand may require a bit too much time and effort.

I know of two people who've had a bad experience doing this. Myself... I dropped off a 5 1/2 to be machined for precisely the same reason. Came back with a huge hollow in it, not what I asked for, but stangely enough will turn out well when I scrape it. The other a professional woodworker here in Brissie, they machined right through the sole at its thinnest points

For some extra opinions here is a thread from practical machinist. I trust some of these guys, especially Forest addy, the guru of scraping on that site.
How to flatten a plane sole... - Practical Machinist - Largest Manufacturing Technology Forum on the Web
Cheers
Michael

Good advice there - thanks. I was thinking that a shop that was capable of skimming cylinder heads should be able to do this, but it looks like the problem is clamping the plane without distorting it.

Originally Posted by mic-d

If you go to the Maleny Wood Show, go see and support Curt Swenson a local woodworker and Windsor chair maker. You'll be able to see these planes at Curt's stall.
Cheers
Michael

Darn it, we were in Noosa for the weekend and I could have visited the wood show. I haven't seen Curt for a while. He still has a book of mine and I still have a shavehorse of his

re 'lapping', in my early days I had similar experiences with rounding over the sole and have avoided it since then. It might be time to get a scraper and fix the damage I did.

pjr

Originally Posted by NZStu

What do people think of the idea of dropping a plane off to a decent machine shop and getting them to skim it flat?

You need to get someone who knows handtools. Joe Bloggs will clamp the plane and grind it flat, then unclamp it and it changes back to it's unstressed shape - and is no longer flat.

You don't need to have your plane perfectly smooth, but if you really want to, or if your sole is out of shape, you could ask Marcou to surface grind it for you. He did two No.4s for me about a year ago. If you PM me I'll tell what it cost me and give you a contact e-mail.

Cheers, Vann.

I don't think the sole of the plane I'm working on is too out of shape. I'm just lazy!

I will get started with the wet and dry and see how it goes.