Thread: Spear and Jackson saw ID

I'd suggest somewhere between late 1950s & 1970, but someone with enough catalogues may be able to pin it down to a narrower range from the handle profile. The handle won't win any beauty contest, but at least it's set at a usable angle. A few folks have shown you can improve the looks & comfort of these handles quite a bit by some judicious use of a rasp & cloth-backed paper.

If the rust isn't too deep & there are no kinks or curves in the plate, a clean-up, sharpen & set & you should be good to go - the steel should be as good as any. The teeth don't look too bad, but I can see a few odd ones - a moderate "topping" & careful re-filing should take care of that. It looks like it's about 15tpi, which is getting to the upper limit of what many saw-sharpening outfits will handle, so you might have to learn to DIY with this one....
Cheers,

Hi Lyle,

I have a 1961 Spear & Jackson catalogue which has two saws similar to yours but, yours could be younger.

My reason for me saying that is because the catalogue saws have brass screws where as your saw appears to have steel screws.

Which to me indicates the down hill direction in quality as the use of and demand for hand tools became less.

Graham.

Good point about the screws & medallion, macg, I was going to mention that they were steel, but I'm not sure how reliable that is for dating. I have an impression that I can't back up with more than a couple of examples, that brass-plated screws were used quite early-on for 'lesser' lines of S&J saws while brass was still being used on the "better" models. I have a saw which came with the "degenerate" post WW2 style of handle like the one pictured, but has solid brass screws (& no medallion, oddly), which I bought new in 1980. Mine has a brass spine, & was consequently more expensive than a steel-backed model, so that may be the difference.

Maybe Paul can shed some further light on this - I know his interests are more in a certain US brand of saws, but he does some pretty wide-ranging reading & has all sorts of info on other brands....
Cheers,

Lyle

The British saws are not really my area as Ian has said, but I would go along with Graham's assessment. Sovereign No.47 with the steel back. However Graham's catalogue states brass saw screws so it could well be later, but not after 1970 where there were no similar styled backsaws and certainly not after 1974 where the catalogue did not feature back saws at all.

Your handle with that "vee" at the front of the grip places the saw as a mid range model. The top of the line feature the nonbrake handle and the Spearior name (had a dowel through the length of the grip) which is Graham's first pic, and the budget models ( labelled John Cockrill) have a more simple handle without that indent.

Regards
Paul

Hi all. Don't mean to be contrary but I think the screws are brass. A quick clean up on a wire wheel will confirm obviously. I am not as well versed as many here but I have not seen any "vintage" S + J saws with steel screws.

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

Hi all. Don't mean to be contrary but I think the screws are brass. A quick clean up on a wire wheel will confirm obviously. I am not as well versed as many here but I have not seen any "vintage" S + J saws with steel screws.

No need to apologise MA, you could well be correct. I took another hard look at them after making the pics as large as I could & what I thought was rust pittingon the medallion is more likely just surface gunk. Anyway, even a quick scrub with steel wool or fine emery paper will settle the issue right smartly....

Originally Posted by IanW

No need to apologise MA, you could well be correct. I took another hard look at them after making the pics as large as I could & what I thought was rust pittingon the medallion is more likely just surface gunk. Anyway, even a quick scrub with steel wool or fine emery paper will settle the issue right smartly....

Ian and MA

I initially thought the saw screws were brass, but the medallion in particular looked "rusty" so I allowed myself to be convinced. The camera never lies? Pig's sphincter! As you said a wire wheel or even a brush should resolve the issue.

Regards
Paul

Graham’s advertising says supplied with Brass screws,but agree conformation via a good scrub would put everyone at ease.

Cheers Matt.

I'll be interested to see how well that saw cleans up. I've passed on saws (online) with less rust for fear that they can't be bought back from the dead. I must admit to being a bit of a bigot. I like pretty saws. I'm cleaning a brass backed C. Nurse & Co rip tenon saw that I bought from Derek last year but it's in much better condition.

Iam travelling at the moment.
Eventually going to a mate at Bribie Island. We'll see what we can get done in a few hours work.
Photos will be uploaded.
Thanks very much for your help and information so far.
Lyle

I like clean and shiny as well! That's why I bought a nice set of Veritas dovetail and carcass saws. I hate cleaning rust.

Originally Posted by banjopicks

.... I hate cleaning rust.....

I don't imagine many of us actually enjoy the process, banjo, but sometimes the rewards are worth the mess & effort....

The different steels used over time have a big influence on how saws age. The old saws I have, that have been well looked-after & well-used have a very thin film of oxide that protects them from atmospheric water & O2. It's only mild protection, like "blueing" it won't prevent rusting if the metal is exposed to the elements, of course, but it does seem to 'stabilise' them to some extent. With normal care, they remain remarkably clean & smooth. The newer saw steels seem much more sensitive to moist air & develop fine worm-like pits at the drop of a hat, & so far none of my "newer" saws (one I've had for >35 years) seem inclined to develop the same fine oxide layer like the old Disstons. Maybe if there's a metallurgist out there they could explain the difference??

Then of course there are "accidents". This is what happens if a drop of good salty sweat falls on your bare shiny saw blade as you're putting it away & you don't notice:
Rust smear.jpg

It must have happened as I was putting the saw away on a very warm Sunday evening, so I didn't see it until the following weekend. I immediately sanded & polished the area but much of it is still visible. These new saw steels just love oxygen, I reckon there wouldn't be much steel remaining if this saw was left in a damp place for a few months!

Cheers,
Cheers,

I knew there would be a good reason to keep restoring old handsaws!!!

Originally Posted by Mountain Ash

I knew there would be a good reason to keep restoring old handsaws!!!

Like you needed a “another reason”MA.[emoji6]

Cheers Matt.