Thread: Weirdo bevel angle

Hook it up to 3 phase and watch the blade vanish

You might just give a thought to leaving that brown stuff alone...

Of course, it could be some old vegetable-based oil that's hardened, in which case yes, you'd probably want to remove it. Why veggy oil? Accident. The old 3-in-1 oil contained it. Several brands did. The previous owner may have thought it was petroleum machine oil or something and didn't realize he was "seasoning" his plane like his cast iron skillets!

On the other hand, if this just looks like a stain rather than an surface deposit, it's probably safe to leave it. If you just happen to want a shiney surface, 600 grit wet-dry backed onto a glass slab will take it off. But it's probably what we old ****s refer to as "patina." To be sure, it's chemically iron oxide (rust). But it has reached a point where, provided you keep the tools away from moisture, it actually acts as a mild rust prohibitor itself. Its not scaley or flakey. It's tiny spots on the poors of the metal and usally combined with a bit of dirt, sawdust and oil from the users' hands.

If you get your planes all sparkly shiney and keep them clean and dry, within 3 or 5 years you'll notice this "stain" appearing again. It can actually become a bit glossy as the plane is used. Except my brass and ductile iron planes, all my planes have this patina. It doesn't wear off onto the wood.

Of course, you could use a reactive teflon spray or something once you get them back to pure iron gray colour to keep them that way.

But do make sure it's patina if you think maybe you want to leave it alone. See if it scrapes off and balls up in front of a chisel or screwdriver blade corner. If it does, it isn't patina, and you should get rid of it, whatever it is.

http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Met...-converter.htm

Rust converter products are usually based on phosphoric acid; there are other additives as well to aid with flow and adhesion. The black coating that forms is hard, insoluble, ferric phosphate:
Fe2O3 + 2 H3PO4 ----> 2 FePO4 + 3 H2O Unlike ferric oxide, ferric phosphate does adhere closely to the underlying metal, and protect against further access of oxygen or oxidants. If some excess phosphoric acid remains adsorbed or otherwise trapped in the phosphate layer, it will give some further protection against rusting at the site of small chips or scratches that damage the initial phosphate layer.

http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives...7542.Ch.r.html

So it is possible that someone used a rust converter on it and the "dark brown hard substance" is ferric phosphate. This is ok if you don't mind the "off colour", it prevents rust - but it doesn't leave that shiny "look Ma I made it all new" surface that I sometimes want.

Good to see someone else scrapes rust - makes me feel all included and warm.

Thanks again guys. Good point Clinton, but the phosphate rust converters usually come out grey, rather than brown don't they.

It is eaxctly as Pondo describes, like a stain rather than a coating and it is a bit glossy.

I'll finish the one I started back to bright metal but juries out on the rest. Its all about effort/results and it certainly takes a lot of effort. We'll also see what the electrolysis does.

Or soak them in vinegar and you'll end up with grey steel no rust.
dunno if it removes the paint, have a feeling it doesn't.

Dare I say it, do a search on this board on elecrolysis. I think Derek was doing some experiments a little while ago on electrolysis vs mild acids like citric acid.


Cheers..............Sean, bit rusty

[QUOTE=Bodgy]
Question - the iron has a bevel around 15 degrees. Before I grind it down to the average 30, any reason why this was so?
QUOTE]

I have heard of old timers who worked exclusively with red cedar sharpening their tools to 15degrees or even less ! Chisels were sharpened to 15degrees or thereabouts and a mallet was never used. Not so sure this applied to planes though.

Arron

Tried the vinegar method, worked like a treat. Removed all the rust and didn't harm the Jappaning. Overnight soak.

The 'patina' remained, so will probably leave it.

Wil try the electrolysis this weekend. Dont have a 6 volt battery charger, 12 volt will have to do. Also can't find Lectic washing powder, HI's favourite will suffice.

Results next week.

Well done Hussey, what a test debut!!!

Another alternative for rust removal is Citric Acid. You can buy it in powder form at the supermarket. Look in the cooking needs or spice section.

Make an approximate 10:1 solution (100ml of water to 10g of Citric Acid) and add a splash of dishwashing liquid to break down the surface tension.

Add you item and leave it to soak. You should have it clean in a few hours without all the fussing with electrodes etc.

Rust removal I am good at.

Electrolosis, can be akward keeping the power to it and getting rid of the results at when you are finished,

Citric acid works, good for small parts another source if you have a lemon tree, lemon juice works wonders just getting enough is the hard part.

One option not mentioned is lightly diluted molassis. We use it on 80 year old car panels, cleans off rust and paint back to clean bare metal. can take some time (depending on the size of the object) and does start to smell after a while, but when you are finished you can just pour it out on the garden

Originally Posted by Bodgy

can't find Lectic washing powder

Washing Crystals, they look like bath salts, not a detergent just a water softener and ensures conductivity.
Pure water will not conduct electricity (Flak jacket on, I said PURE water).

Tried the electroysis method on the planes yesterday, bodies, irons, frogs, caps etc.

Not because I think I'm smart, but because thats was all I had available, I modified the procedure.

My battery charger only outputs 12 v at 4 amps RMS. I used dishwashing machine powder not Electic crystals. 1 tbs spoon per liter. I stole a SS fork from HI's cutlery drawer for the anode.

Happy to report that it worked very well. I kept the two items about 85 mm apart to compensate for the higher current and left nothing in the 'tank' for more than 90 minutes depending on how much rust and the size of the object. The 'patina' was removed along with the rust. Incidentally, both sides of the plane irons were cleaned in one procedure. I was surprised that the rear, facing away side got done too.

Quite visually entertaining too, the thing bubbles away and also gets quite hot. Family thought I was quite eccentric - playing mad scientist, but thats nothing new.

In summary, soaking over night in vinegar is very efficacious and easy but does not remove the 'patina' Electrolysis is a bit of stuffing around but is the most thorough and recommended for heavily rusted tools.

Thanks to all, I do enjoy learning new, successful techniques.