Thread: Bar Stools WIP

Day three has seen me round off all the sharp edges on my router table. As you can see in some of the pics i had quite a few issues with tearout. Not sure if the wood can be blamed (microfractures from its past as framing wood?), more than likely it is a combination of user error and my dodgy router bits.

At the moment i only have a 1/4inch old stanley 1hp router, it does have the benefit of a fixed depth setting (it's not a plunge type router) which is good for the table but it lacks the more common 1/2in collet and probably an extra hp. I will remedy that situation at some stage in the future though. For the time being it still works ok for most situations. The reason i mention it is because i think i could have saved myself some of the problems yesterday if I could have used a decent spiral bit when cutting the rabbets which were the most problematic. I could also have done them in one pass instead of the two i used.

Anyway, next step is to fill in all the nail holes with some black filler and start the arduous task of sanding everything thoroughly.

Pic 1 - The very first piece i rounded, forgot about the dowel holes...the result
Pic 2 - Half way through all the cross members
Pic 3 - The legs finished, note the clamped one (pic 5)
Pic 4 - Tear out on the rabbets (i was using a straight 19mm bit to cut 10x10mm rabbet in two passes, 5mm deep at a time)
Pic 5 - Splintering when I rounded the end grain on the leg "feet", i attempted to fix with cyanoacrylate (super glue) but not sure how successful it will be, i will probably fill the missing bit with the black filler.

Cheers
Mat

When I do rebates, I like to do a scoring pass first. To do this only take off about 1mm and feed the timber in reverse (if your using a table mounted router). Then you can finish at full depth of the rebate.

Because your not taking alot of material off, the cutter doesnt have alot of meat to grab and you are left with a clean rebate.

Also the larger the diameter of the cutter also helps reduce splintering.

I am guessing that next time you might want to avoid rounding the endgrain of the foot. Could use a block plan to champer it a little or a hand file.

Interesting to see what they look like finished.

Originally Posted by KorDes

When I do rebates, I like to do a scoring pass first. To do this only take off about 1mm and feed the timber in reverse (if your using a table mounted router). Then you can finish at full depth of the rebate.

Because your not taking alot of material off, the cutter doesnt have alot of meat to grab and you are left with a clean rebate.

Also the larger the diameter of the cutter also helps reduce splintering.

Thanks KorDes,

Unfortunately my small router is the limiting factor in terms of bit size (19mm is my max with a 1/4in shank). I might try your technique next time, although having said that i have had a bad experience with reverse cutting on a router table. I presume that the fine pass is intended to avoid that sort of situation.

Hmm i wonder is doing a scoring cut with a marking knife would achieve a similar result. Might have to do some testing next time i attempt this sort of thing.

Thanks for the advice.
Cheers
Mat

Originally Posted by Christos

I am guessing that next time you might want to avoid rounding the endgrain of the foot. Could use a block plan to champer it a little or a hand file.

Interesting to see what they look like finished.

Definitely... I was tossing up about whether to round the ends or not and i decided to just go with it (what's the harm right....). Unfortunately once i did the first one or two it was hard to turn back. The tear out happened on the second piece (out of 16) so at least it meant i was more careful and slow for the rest of the legs which helped too.

So i figured as I didn't have a lot of time yesterday after work I would spend it wisely and fill all the "character" (read nail) holes with some black putty.

One problem when i went to the big B looking for black putty i realised they either don't sell it or no such thing exists. (Anyone offer comment on this? How do you get black wood putty?). So in a lightbulb moment i bought some black gap filler, seeing as how it is meant to be paintable with water and oil based paints.

I tried a practice piece and it worked ok, i oiled it up with Danish Oil and it took to the finish well so i figured i'd go ahead with the lot. The thing i failed to notice on the trial piece was the amazing shrinkage rate of the stuff since the test hole was quite small.

So I dutifully filled all the holes on the legs and cross members and then went off for dinner at the in-laws. When i got back I noticed my folly. The stuff had shrunken about 40% or so within a few hours. So given the lack of alternative i applied an extra coating of the black gunk. The good thing is that it's got quite good bonding properties so that should be ok, what i don't know is how good a job i did the second time around. Given the huge gunks of slop on the wood now, i have no option but to sand it all back and see if any areas need extra attention. I will start on that tonight i think. I might also see if i can piece together the seat tops.

Ahhh don't you love learning along the way.

Cheers
Mat

Originally Posted by Lplates

Thanks KorDes,

Unfortunately my small router is the limiting factor in terms of bit size (19mm is my max with a 1/4in shank). I might try your technique next time, although having said that i have had a bad experience with reverse cutting on a router table. I presume that the fine pass is intended to avoid that sort of situation.

Hmm i wonder is doing a scoring cut with a marking knife would achieve a similar result. Might have to do some testing next time i attempt this sort of thing.

Thanks for the advice.
Cheers
Mat

Yea, only taking about 1mm of going in reverse helps to avoid any messy situations of the cutter grabing the wood. but leaves a really nice rebate.

As for filling any holes, I like to use builders bog (2 pack type with hardener) and get some black/brown tint from an automotive paint supplier. This works out really well, because I like to use alot of recycled timber full of nail holes.

I've gotten a little lazy with reporting my progress, probably cos it's been going a bit slowly. I'm not a fan of the finishing/sanding phase, it's usually the slowest because you are waiting for things to dry and in my case being limited by the number of clamps i have. (must do something about that, I think i might go past masters at lunch and see if they have any decent items).

Anyway so i left off having made the stupid mistake with the no more gaps. So given that i caked the stuff on to avoid shrinkage i've decided that it's best to leave it for a couple of days to dry properly before i attempt to sand it. So in the mean time I set about starting on the seat tops. I had some blackwood i bought from a family friend which he had intended to use for his own project. I also thought i would try something different and add a stripe of the messmate to the mix just to break it up a bit.

So i cut all the biscuit slots and glued the whole thing up. The next day i've come along to scrape off the excess glue, what's the harm in that right? Turns out that the glue is so strong that it took pieces of wood with it when i scraped it off. refer to pictures. So now I will have to either use the opposite side which doesn't have a super flat finish, or sand the bejeezus out of it to get below the tear out. That seems to be a theme for this project...maybe i should rename it to the Tear Out Project.

Anyway, i will persevere. It would help if I could get the sander i ordered actually sent to me. I ordered it from a certain large city tools store but given their ebay feedback regarding delivery times i'm not holding my breath.

Oh i also made a sanding jig to hold the small pieces in place while i sand them and tried the method out on a piece, looks to have worked ok.

Pic1 - The blackwood and messmate cut into pieces with biscuit slots cut
Pic2 - Glue up
Pic3 - Before shot of cross piece (note the thick filler)
Pic4 - After shot of same piece
Pic5 - Glued top piece wiped with wet rag to show colour
Pic6 - Sanding jig which i will put into action over the weekend.

Despite the nice weather on the weekend I managed to get a good amount of time to dedicate to sanding/cleanup phase.

Friday night I planed down the "stripe" on the seat tops and also sanded it down to be relatively flat. I don't have a drum sander or a thicknesser so i had to use my belt sander with a support rig which keeps it relatively flat. I've used the same method before when working on my bowling lane table. It doesn't come out perfect but for what i need it will be fine. I intend to refine it further once i cut out the circles for the seats.

Saturday the theme was mostly sanding. Starting with the belt sander with a 120g belt (didn't want to use the 60 as it was to aggressive) to remove all the excess filler and get the surfaces relatively flat. This was followed by a hand sanding for all the corners and edges that aren't flat.

Sunday I hand sanded a handful of pieces down to 180 and then 240 before i did my first glue up.

I removed the three pieces i glued up this morning and was not too happy to see that the wooden pads i'd used had actually made an impression in the wood. Not too deep but still visible... Will have to be more careful on the next few pieces. Might use some cotton padding between the wood and clamp this time.

Happy with the progress so far, just dreading having to use the jigsaw again as it doesn't produce great results (could be the operator), although the seat tops will have a much greater radius so should be easier.

Pic1 - Saturday sanding progress with cross ties
Pic2 - Couldn't help myself had to try a dry assembly
pic3 - Hard to see but picture shows discolouration caused by glue reacting with the blackwood. It turned it a orange colour but i managed to sand it out.
pic4 - Cutting the top plates with the jigsaw
pic5 - top plates after routing and clean up
pic6 - Sanding the legs on Saturday.

All weekend sanding.

Done that before.

Forgot to mention, good progress just a little bit more and then on to finishing.

It feels like the build is dragging on a bit but I did get a fair bit done on the weekend. Mainly that involved cutting out the seat tops and shaping them, sanding them and fitting the bearings. Also a bunch of gluing for the remainder of the legs and the inevitable sanding that goes with it.

Starting to come together though which means i will be able to start applying finish probably next weekend if not sooner. Still have the fiddly bits to sand again after the (water based?) glue lifted the grain on a bunch of places.

Pic1 - Gluing the legs
Pic2 - My simple circle drawing jig
Pic3 - Fitting the Lazy Susan bearings
Pic4 - The seat top placed on a set of legs to see what it will come together like.
Pic5 - Shaping the seat tops and the tools i used. The top is mounted on it's bearing so that i can spin it while using the shaper/sander. I shaped it in seven steps: Coarse Tungsten chip shaper -> 40g Flap wheel -> 80g Flap wheel -> 80g ROS -> 120g ROS -> 180g ROS -> 240g ROS
Pic6 - Last of the glue and the finished leg bases
Pic7 - Finished seat tops, still need to do the undersides though.

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Originally Posted by Lplates

It feels like the build is dragging on a bit .....

Not from where I am sitting.

Originally Posted by Lplates

.... Mainly that involved cutting out the seat tops and shaping them, sanding them and fitting the bearings. Also a bunch of gluing for the remainder of the legs and the inevitable sanding that goes with it.

And also not from where you are sitting. That's an incredible amount of work to get all this done.

Awesome job there mate, they look really nice. specially like the square ones. Not sure if you've been told as yet but there should be a black putty from timbermate, called ebony. I've only seen it in a large tub but assume it comes in smaller sizes.

Originally Posted by Sandow

Awesome job there mate, they look really nice. specially like the square ones. Not sure if you've been told as yet but there should be a black putty from timbermate, called ebony. I've only seen it in a large tub but assume it comes in smaller sizes.

Thanks Sandow. Yeah I found it when i went looking the second time and I did actually get to use it on one of the legs because the sanding process took out a chip along one of the already filled areas. Much nicer to work with that's for sure.