Thread: Hercus, etc Model data

Hi Peter, when I first started the Register it was to get as much information as possible on the Hercus Machines ,due to the fact that Hercus never kept any Historical records

I have been working out somewhere around 1950 onwards that Hercus changed to the camlock Tailstock as well as converting to v-belt

The v-belt as yet I have not found if they were a optional extra as in the South Bend or were just changed as a pure modification ,yet still no year

There is also the different ways to mount the motor or were the F & R Drum Switch was positioned

There is also the MODEL D ??? that Tony from UK talks about

The list is endless and I hope the owners of machines from 1950 onwards will help fill in the why's and when all these modifications were made even to the year the roller bearing headstock

all the best Derek

What a stirling idea Sir!

Perhaps the first step is to identify those areas that appeared to have changed that we may want to track and then each interested member can be invited to provide that info from their machine(s)
eg:
Model
S/N
Roller bearings,
Top slide retainer screws Near or Far
Imp / Metric
Etc

Wouldnt take to too long to pin down some major change dates and keep Bitza occupied referencing it to his knowledgebase for confirmation

Perhaps its also worth re-posting that "date / Serial" list and identify the major differences between models.

I know - I know its here on the forum somewhere.....

My Model B s/n BR9673 circa 1965 has the cam lock on the tailstock - perhaps all "B'''s did

Q. Should the headstock have a S/n and where is it located I fear mine may be painted over, several times, and it would be easier to know where to dig - if it exists.

Now back to converting perfectly good steel to chips and curls....

Ian

Hi Ian, the Model B only had the number stamped on the change gear chart the tailstock and the bed only the Model A had a number and that was on the gearbox plate

all the best Derek

If all tail Stocks had Part No stamped on them and if they were Stamped in the same spot,the location for the Part No is on the Top section of the Tail Stock,Centre Rear above the alignment mark on the Rear Bottom section of the Tail Stock.

Thanks Pipeclay - I found that one OK - good info and thanks Derek I found the gear cover OK too.

I was just wondering if the actual head stock was also matched to the bed by serial numbers.The bed, tailstock and gear cover numbers match OK , but I was wondering if the Head stock was also stamped as matched.

A good point actually for this thread is to add this to the other info of S/N & year of Manufacture - How to ID your machine and where the numbers should be on the different models..

Cheers

Ian

From the outside, the plain bearing model headstock of the Hercus looks the same as the Sheraton. The bull gear, thrust bearing and pulley (but not belt size) are interchangeable.
However inside the casting, there is a difference. No felt, No springs, No oil wicks.
The photos show a series of spiral grooves that feed the oil supply around the spindle.
The solid shim has been included in the machining process.
The spindle bearings showed about 0.015mm (0.0006") wear variation across the surface.
A detail of a foreign particle that has a scored the surface is shown. This was small but enough to catch the spindle if put back into the housing. It was honed off with a diamond stone.
Considering the abuse the rest of the machine has endured, it was a pleasant surprise.

Ian,
Good idea.
I have a copy with the quantity made per year.
Anyone got a list of the Sheraton?
Peter

Peter, what a terrific document. This is excellent for dating purposes.

A couple of units produced per day for every day of the year is pretty good manufacturing and organisation.

Thank you.

Frank

Originally Posted by Godzilla98

Thanks Pipeclay - I found that one OK - good info and thanks Derek I found the gear cover OK too.

I was just wondering if the actual head stock was also matched to the bed by serial numbers.The bed, tailstock and gear cover numbers match OK , but I was wondering if the Head stock was also stamped as matched.

A good point actually for this thread is to add this to the other info of S/N & year of Manufacture - How to ID your machine and where the numbers should be on the different models..

Cheers

Ian

Hi Ian, as I have stripped Hercus Lathes from the 40's 50's, 60's 70's,and 80's in Acid I have only found 1 odd part which was a late roller bearing headstock lathe and the carraige was stamped with a C the others have nothing

From what I can see so far is all tailstocks that use a spanner are not stamped all Model A are stamped on the gearbox plate the lathe bed and if a late model on the Tailstock

The Model B & C are stamped on the gear change plate on the gear cover and on the lathe bed and if late model Tailstock

Unlike South Bend who stamped all the metal parts of their machine and also recorded all their data from the day it was built to the day it was sold to a customer

A pity Hercus never kept a filing system like that

all the best Derek

Nor quite obvious, but shown side by side is the different teeth angles
cut on the change gears.
The Hercus is 14.5, the Sheraton is 20.0 degrees.
Both are 18 DP.
They are interchangeable, (not a perfectly smooth mesh) but as the tooth loading is very low, acceptable.
Peter

G'day guys
one of my lathe's, A 3953, has a spanner to lock the tail stock and features a serial number that matches both the bed and headstock number. It seems I'm in the minority with that.

Someting further for you to ponder Derek

Even though the range of Hercus models and similar Sheraton 9" lathes have similar leadscrews for the slides, same diameters, lengths etc. There is at least three different ways to key the handle to the shaft.
The 1939 "C" model Hercus uses a round key, it appears that the hole is drilled during assembly.
Later Hercus models use a woodruff key.
The Sheraton has a pin driven into the shaft. It is not required to be removed to extract the retaining bush.
They all work OK, but each has a reason related to production methods.
Peter

Originally Posted by brittleheart

Nor quite obvious, but shown side by side is the different teeth angles
cut on the change gears.
The Hercus is 14.5, the Sheraton is 20.0 degrees.
Both are 18 DP.
They are interchangeable, (not a perfectly smooth mesh) but as the tooth loading is very low, acceptable.
Peter

Is the Hercus on the left?

Jordan

I would take a punt and say the Hercus Compound is the one on the right.