Thread: Dust extraction advice wanted

Wayne,


Batter up !!!

Play ball !!!

Ok clear some space for the man ... back away there will be plenty to see here

Ahh ... just having you on Wayne ... I might make a cyclone myself one of these days

Ok, everyone moved back to a safe distance - don't want Eastie coming in here telling my I posting to close to the spectators

Uh hum! Uh hum! (Clear the ol' throat) - Ok, lets go....

What was the question again - Oh yeah - Biscuit jointers? No, thats right DUST REMOVAL!

Geoff,

I believe the 2hp Ledacraft FM-300 is the same spec as the Hare & Forbes 2hp I used as a base for my Cyclone. So, go for it. Your plans sound alright for the time being but you will find (as does everyone) that during use the suction (pressure and air speed) will drop off as the bags clog up with the fine dust. This is why I built a Cyclone. If you are interested, go to my thread a http://www.woodworkforums.ubeaut.com...&threadid=3749 and read about dust collection and my cyclone.

As for the piping, go for the 150mm (6 inch) which is recommended by the guys in the U.S. who I got my inspiration from. I have installed about 9 metres of 150mm with temporary, short 4" flex connections to my machines. I will replace these with 150mm all the way over time. That is not to say that it is not working very well IT IS but it could work even better with 6" machine connections - at the Saws in particular.

You will have a bit of a problem with air flow though. At first the 150mm will work better than 100mm (4 inch) but, as mentioned above, the suction will drop of as the bags clog. It would also drop of with 100mm, just a bit later (20 minutes of using the Router with a big Moulding Bit in my experience).

On your idea to put the Bags in a closed cupboard, you will need some form of air outlet on the cupboard otherwise back pressure will kill the air flow. This would need a fine filter to stop the dust coming back in to the shop and fine filters (1 to .5 micron) are I've found that these are very expensive in Oz. You could build the cupboard on an outside wall and have a vent (window?) to the outside and do without the filter but don't you or anyone else walk past it while it is running or you will inhale the invisible fine dust that is dangerous to your health.

The other thing you could do is go for the Pleated Filter Drums that fit on the top of 2hp units. These start at $400 and go up to $600 for Jet branded ones. Whats the diff? $400 are paper and will wear out and the expensive ones are a polyester blend. So, this just got more expensive. Solution BUILD A CYCLONE. Maybe not straight away but soon. Believe me, you will not regret it one bit. These things:
* Suck heaps
* Do not loose suction with use (no bags)
* Easy to empty (have you ever empty a Bag before - Yuk!)
* Actually take up less space
* Just plain cool.

:eek: (Breath Wayne - thats better)

So, totally confused now Seriously, I hope this helps and ask any questions you like - post - email - pm - whatever.

Ok Ken and Stinky, you can move back in now. Everyone else, move along - nothing to see here.

Thanks Wayne
You've confirmed that most of plans would work.

The cupboard would certainly be on the outside wall with a large hole to the outside. Probably a louvre window which could be shut (when not in use!).

Building a cyclone is possibly on my agenda also but will take time. Is the 2 hp unit I suggested good enough for a cyclone?

Yes, I have emptied bags - not nice - is it possible to put a large green garbage inside them and just remove an tie them? I currently empty my vacuum into these which I then deliver to the tip's compost section.

This has all started from the fact that 1 hours sawing leads to 1 weeks coughing (cofin!!) - don't need a doctor to tell me that is not good. It seems to get worse as you get older - what doesn't?

Thanks again

Geoff,

The 2hp will work and is the minimum for a Cyclone. I am running a 2hp and it works great (You would not believe how great!!)

Building one is not that hard - I took a while due to lack of weekend time available. We have two kids 1 & 4 which demand lots of attention on weekends so I did most of the work at night.

I would not put a plastic bag inside the cloth bags as you will lose even more suction. The bottom bags are need to breath to maintain air flow.

If you build a cyclone, you end up with a metal bin under it. To empty: Undo quick clamp, remove bin and take it out and empty into the compost bin or plastic bag for rubbish bin, replace bin and do up clamp. Takes about 2 minutes with nearly no dust cloud (always were a mask in any case). The dust cloud you get emptying the bags mainly comes from the fine stuff stuck to the bag sides - this does not happen with a cyclone collection drum.

If you are coughing that much:
1. See a doctor today!
2. Build a cyclone tomorrow and fit fine Torit style filters to it (I have been quoted $200 - $250 for these but better than a long stay in hospital or worse).

At least, get one of those Pleated Filters to replace the bags. They use plastic disposable bags on the bottom so you chuck the whole thing. They can do this because the Pleated filter has about 5-10 times the surface area of the bags so suction increases as well.

Lastly, did I say this before? Build a Cyclone - you would love it.

Cheers,

Just a thought without thinking it through first ....
Instead of a round metal rubish bin as a collection for the cyclone woudl it be possible to use a 120L wheelie bin provided that it can be sealed correctly and that the height in the workshop isnt an issue. It would add almost another 1000mm onto the overall height. Its just with the new garbage collection system we have so bloody may wheelie bins I thought that the capacity and portablity might be an advantage.
Stinky

Stinkie,

A wheely bin would be great IF you have that much ceiling height. If you do, I envy you lots. The Cyclone with motor/blower is at least 2.1m high so adding the bin would make 3.1m! Great idea if you can do it. Just make sure you put non-porous foam under the lid to create a seal and fit a catch of some kind.

I have seen Cyclones using all sorts of things for the Collection Drum including those rectangular plastic storage units. Whatever works and is air tight.

Wayne, you mentioned the 2HP unit from Hare & Forbes.

They show two types in their catalogue, Economy DC-3 for $339.00 or the Industrial DC-60 for $599.00 (2 micron filter bags).

Which model did you use for Cyclone.

Gordon.

Economy for $329! I talked to their mechanic who do the warranty repairs and he said he has less hassle with these than the dearer one!! The Impeller's in both are the same giving then same air capacity so it does not matter which one.

As for their (and all the other coys) statement re "2 micron" bags - this is apparently a load of bull. The only time those bags will stop 2 micron dust (which cannot be seen) is when they are nearly totally clogged with dust thereby creating a dust barrier on the inside. You can read all about this on Bill Pentz's site which I have posted before. If you don't believe me, find someone with 2 micron "fine" filter bags and go up to the bag and hit it. You will SEE dust come out!! This means they are not even stopping 20 micron and above!

Wayne,

What is the difference between the "Economy" and "Tradesmen" range that they seem to offer on the selection of dust extractors?

The reason that I ask is that from looking at Carbatec's catalogue there seems to be very little difference between the two models. The only things that I could notice from the pictures were improved wheels and slightly stronger supports for the bag. I notice that in the new catalogue there is a difference in CFM in the 2HP range, but in the 1hp range the only real difference is price.

When I invest it will most likely be the economy 2hp model with the long term view of turning it into the Super Cyclone.

Stinky

From what I have found out and been told - not much.

* The salesmen guys say the motors are a better rating, the general construction is more solid and the bags are finer.

* The mechanic I spoke to at one of the stores in mention said - Bugger All and he would buy the cheap one as he thought its motor was actually better!

* After owning a cheap 1hp before which was absolutely fine and then checking out both price ranges in the 2hp (and 3hp), I bought a cheap 2hp. (Believe me when I say I checked them out)

I think that the motors on the more expensive ones are actually rated for continous use ie 24/7 but I don't think the cheapies are much behind them, certainly not for the dollar diff.

Just ordered a DC-3 and it's a BIG unit, I'll have no room left in my allocated small corner of the garage.

Must make a little garden shed for SWMBO to put all the stuff in that she tends to 'place' in the garage.

Also ordered the PT-205H Planner/Thicknesser. Should all be here in the next 1/2hour or so.

Gordon.

I am puzzled. How can you order from Hare & Forbes and get it in 1/2hr ? They don't have a place in Melbourne as far as I knew. :confused: