Thread: Is this the same machine?

G'day,

Very similar, but the the table is bigger on the C/tec version which also has a 5 yr guarantee against the H&F 2yr.

Others might be able to post other differences.

very similar but not the same, without going through all specs the glaring one is the depth of cut, and solid versus spoked wheel's, whether this matters or not is your decision, I dont know what I would do if I ordered oranges and they turned up with a box of mandarins, very similar but not the same, it may be standard practice, give the rep a ring and see what's going on, put the details of the two side by side and write down the differences, and relate them to the rep! see what he says

Originally Posted by Waldo

G'day,

Very similar, but the the table is bigger on the C/tec version which also has a 5 yr guarantee against the H&F 2yr.

Others might be able to post other differences.

Thanks Waldo! I only just noticed those 2 differences as well.

my main concern, i ordered a custom blade for this machine and was concerned the HAFCO won't take the same blade.

Another, fairly major, difference is the the wheels. The H&F ones are much lighter in weight and construction and you will notice the difference between the diecast ones on the H&F and the solid cast iron ones on the Carbatec.

I have the the 17" version of the Carbatec one you ordered and I compared it to the H&F "equivalent", chalk and cheese.

The H&F one is also $110 dollars cheaper, has a smaller table and the fence isn't as good.

Don't know where you ordered it from, but I wouldn't accept it as a substitute. If you ordered a Holden you probably wouldn't accept a Ford, or vice versa.

Originally Posted by Dave50

very similar but not the same, without going through all specs the glaring one is the depth of cut, and solid versus spoked wheel's, whether this matters or not is your decision, I dont know what I would do if I ordered oranges and they turned up with a box of mandarins, very similar but not the same, it may be standard practice, give the rep a ring and see what's going on, put the details of the two side by side and write down the differences, and relate them to the rep! see what he says

Thanks Dave - is the depth of cut referred to as Height Cap for the HAFCO?

What performance difference would spoked vers solid wheel give me? do you know? I must same i was pretty unimpressed... particularly if there is going to be a performance issue.

Thanks!
T

Originally Posted by Big Shed

Another, fairly major, difference is the the wheels. The H&F ones are much lighter in weight and construction and you will notice the difference between the diecast ones on the H&F and the solid cast iron ones on the Carbatec.

I have the the 17" version of the Carbatec one you ordered and I compared it to the H&F "equivalent", chalk and cheese.

The H&F one is also $110 dollars cheaper, has a smaller table and the fence isn't as good.

Don't know where you ordered it from, but I wouldn't accept it as a substitute. If you ordered a Holden you probably wouldn't accept a Ford, or vice versa.

Thanks Big Shed.

What is the performance difference between the cast iron and spoked wheels? I am pretty unimpressed that they delivered a completely different machine that we agreed. The price doesn't bother me as a i haven't paid the bill yet.

Originally Posted by ecks79

Thanks Big Shed.

What is the performance difference between the cast iron and spoked wheels? I am pretty unimpressed that they delivered a completely different machine that we agreed. The price doesn't bother me as a i haven't paid the bill yet.

Another forum member has the "same" machine as my Carbatec 17" (SBW4300) but from a different supplier (same wheels as the H&F you have now) and he has commented that he wished he had the solid cast iron wheels that my Carbatec 17" has.

I have to say I haven't worked on both machines, but I value his opinion.

My Carbatec SBW4300, which is essentially the same as the 19", is the smoothest and quietest bandsaw I have ever worked on. There are absolutely no vibrations and the wheels run very smooth. Getting a straight cut on this machine is an absolute cinch.

If it was me I would hold out for the Carbatec model that you ordered.

Thanks Big Shed,

I must say, i ran the machine up on the weekend... it ran very silent and smooth... I followed the recommended tuneup from various sources - table alignments - upper and lower guide settings, setting the fence etc... the only problem i have with the cut is the finish - high and low spots on the cut when it is running straight. I've since learned, the bearings should be hard against the blade and not .5mm off like it was originally suggested... which will sort that issue out.

My only real concern was, if the heavy wheel helps keep the blade that much more stable - but as Carba-Tec have just explained to me, the heavy wheels provide more torque, but no mention of better cutting results.

T

Originally Posted by ecks79

Thanks Dave - is the depth of cut referred to as Height Cap for the HAFCO?

What performance difference would spoked vers solid wheel give me? do you know? I must same i was pretty unimpressed... particularly if there is going to be a performance issue.

Thanks!
T

yes that's right the height capacity or depth of cut both mean the same thing, whether this is going to be a problem is up to you, solid versus spoked wheels I dont know, I guess solid wheel would resist twisting??? couldn't say, but if i was you I would ring the rep with the differences well documented and just see what is going on

I haven't had anything to do with either unit other than reading the links included. I note the following issues that have been raised.

Solid CI wheels vs Spoked CI wheels. Solid wheels have greater mass and hence greater inertia while running. This is effectively extra power 'in the bank' as the flywheel action of wheels can overcome shorter term overloads like getting through a knot without stressing the motor. They may also be more rigid, it would depend on reltive web/spoke designs. Counterpoint- higher mass wheels need more energy to get to speed, and longer to coast to a stop, may be an issue if you are using the unit for successive start, short cut, stop cycles.

Switches. Both units have no volt switches so that in the event of a power failure, the unit will stop and remain off until the start button is pressed. Both units have door interlock switches and cannot operate with the doors open. One unit has a key lock, and the other doesn't. This may become an issue if you might have unauthorised/uninformed visitors to the shop who like to push buttons to see what happens. Key lock avoids needing to have to unplug machine when not required, provided that you remember to pull the key and can find it when you need the machine. A key lock could be added internally or externally if this ws deemed essential.

Blade length. Specified difference in length between the two machines is 5mm. You mention having had a custom blade made to suit the machine you ordered, said blade should be longer than required for machine supplied. Provided that the blade width is within the supplied machines capabilities, this just means that the top wheel will move an extra 2.5mm vertically before it starts to compress the tension spring. Depening on linkage arangements, this may effect calibration of the tension guage.

You did not say who you purchased from, or whether they offered to cover the difference in warranty period, whether this or minor issues like table extension etc are an issue to you is a matter for you to consider in light of your particular requirements.

Hi Malb,

Thanks for the very detailed explanation, that definitely clears up a few things for me. It will also explain the poor cut due to the lack of tension i was able to get from the custom blade...

I specifically didn't mention who i bought it from until i know how it is dealt with.

I assume that if it comes to it, i can have it fit with a solid CI wheel if i feel the benefits are required? however, i can't see this being an immediate issue unless it translates to a poorer cut.

I am rather pi**ed about the new blade being a 'throw away'... the little extra in table size i don't think will bother me (yet) and the fence i am making custom to slot over the top... so not overly fussed on this one either.

Thanks again mate, very helpful and very detailed!

T

I have the carba-tec 19" and mine has spoked alloy wheels which are excellent, very rigid and well balanced. I don't think solid or steel would be an improvement.

Originally Posted by Toymaker Len

I have the carba-tec 19" and mine has spoked alloy wheels which are excellent, very rigid and well balanced. I don't think solid or steel would be an improvement.

Thanks Toymaker!

I'd be interested in their explanation of why they sold you one and supplied another. All the differences mentioned above may or may not be significant for what you want to do with it (although the warranty difference would be a major factor to me regardless), but this comes down to sales ethics. Did you know you were going to be supplied with the different model, or did you find out when the box arrived? Did you agree to the different model between buying it and delivery? Do you have an existing relationship with the vendor, or is this your first purchase from them? Do they want your repeat business?

To use that favoured of analogies, the automotive one: if you did all your research on different models, made your choice based on your specific requirements, and went to a car yard and bought a Toyota Hilux, would you be happy if they delivered a Mazda BT50? They're pretty similar. They'll both do the job. They're both good quality vehicles. They cost about the same. You could modify the one they delivered to be more like the one you had ordered. Would you be happy?

I think not.