Thread: Isaac On Sawfiles

Originally Posted by Ron Bontz

At least they didn't say "Made in India"

Heh heh. I doubt that any marketer in the world would proudly lay claim to that doubtful honour......

Originally Posted by Ron Bontz

"Grobet recently merged with an Italian firm to manufacture all their needle and Swiss Pattern tang Files"

Thinking about that, it means that now Grobet USA is marketing Swiss Pattern files that are made in Italy. Talk about multi cultural....


The information that I've had so far is that there are only 3 file factories left in Europe (plus very minor player Stahl Willie as mentioned before). However, a Euro company that was previously a manufacturer, but is now a marketer (of Indian files, naturally) has told me that there is another European factory. I have no reason to doubt him, and that might just be Corradi, in Italy. It may just be that Grobet and Corradi have joined forces. The clues are as follows:

1. www.corradishop.com is a USA based online retailer. On the home page they say "All our products are Italian made" and some other chest beating.
2. On this page it talks about their needle files, and one of them is 200mm long


Unfortunately, they don't really know what they are talking about though. If you look at any of the sharpening file pages, and I will take Extra Slim as the example, they say that they are "3 Square Saw Files" which is bollocks. A 3 Sq file does not have the edges cut, hence 3 Sq faces. For example, a triangular needle file is 3 Sq, which is why they have such sharp corners.

Furthermore, the files only have a minor taper right at the tip, unlike the proper taper of years gone by:


and compared to two new files:

Those look (the two outside) like the grobet files that I got, with teeth missing on the edges and not just relieved in a regular pattern.

Of course, not all of mine looked "as good" as the two in the picture.

It's a shame you guys don't get the bahcos for the price we do, as I was reminded how wonderful they are reshaping the teeth in a 5 point rip saw this weekend. With a file that has already reshaped the teeth of two other saws and is still cutting fast and quietly. The only gripe I have of them is that the corners are fairly plump, but that probably helps their longevity and in a large rip saw, it won't make a difference.

Originally Posted by D.W.

Those look (the two outside) like the grobet files that I got, with teeth missing on the edges and not just relieved in a regular pattern.

Pretty sure that one of them was indeed a Grobet USA. The other one might have been an F.Dick, but there's an exceptionally good reason why the two look identical.......

Originally Posted by D.W.

It's a shame you guys don't get the bahcos for the price we do

We don't get anything for the same prices as you do.....not even close.....except for Aussie made tools.

I was shaping an 11 ppi rip saw (a rip saw is 28-30", and half rip is 26", so this was more like an eighth rip or a Chest Rip perhaps) the other day with a 6" XX Slim K & F made in Brazil 20 years ago. File worked reasonably well - one file edge toothed, shaped and sharpenened a 16.5" saw (0.034 - 0.40" thick plate), and there is plenty of life left on the edge. I did find some resistance in the file cutting smoothly after a while, however when I decided to emphasise the back of the tooth when finalising the shaping, and sharpening, I experienced a much smoother and more predictable filing. Stewie and MarvW both recommend this approach for dealing with larger flats, for me seems to work well for all flats.

I am reasonably impressed with the K & F - and the rest of the files in the box looks pretty consistent as well, perhaps offshore manufacture started off ok (Starrett in Brazil were ok years ago I understand, and even in Scotland).

Cheers
Peter

A couple of pictures of the K & F. By 20 years ago when this was made, Nicholson had been making files in Brazil for over 20 years by this time.

KF1.jpgkf2.jpgkf3.jpg

Wow, that's a rough blank grind Peter. Essentially makes it a double cut. At least the grind marks are parallel.....

Originally Posted by FenceFurniture

Wow, that's a rough blank grind Peter. Essentially makes it a double cut. At least the grind marks are parallel.....

In the ist pic, the marks are so deep & so regular, I thought they must be intentional. However, in the second pic, they are not so deep, far from regular, & certainly don't look like they are deliberate grooves...

Yes, looks poor under magnification, however the file works ok, so perhaps it works as a double cut. Without magnification I see only a smooth surface (how bad can my eyes get?).

Now for a 6" X-slim Baiter, perhaps my camera macro facility is too good?
Baiter.jpg
and an Oberg mill file (pre-1970). After 45+ years in paper, hardly surprising some of it is rubbing off on the file.
oberg.jpg
and another Oberg 8" Slim of similar vintage
oberg2.jpg

Yes, there are very few who do a proper, smooth grind.

One example was a Liogier Needle:



and a Vallorbe (I think it is, anyway)


As I recall, I'm yet to see a decent grind on any file of any type, above needle size.

Files for hardness testing arrived today.

Files from Australia.jpg

I'll try to get the packs of new files to the other testers by the end of the week.

Many topics going on here at one time now. I ordered some more files from auto tool world this weekend. Saturday to be exact. I got shipping notice yesterday, but no tracking number (which is SOP for a lot of drop shippers here, they forward the order to the shipper but never have interest in getting tracking back to let you know - it's not really important). We'll see if they show up timely, it's been a while since I ordered from them.

As usual, I ordered 10. Didn't expect to ever have to order from them again, but I have a rash of rip saws that I want to get rid of and enough of them have bad teeth that I'll probably be down to half a dozen 7 slims when I get done. I am still enamored with the bahcos, though - on an atkins saw, which shed a tooth overset by a prior sharpener, I was able to shape teeth, then unfortunately have that tooth cut loose and full depth cut another set of teeth in 2/3rds of the saw length all with the same file.

The cost here for 10 7 inch slim files (my go to for 4 1/2 - 5 1/2 point rip saws) was $63 shipped.

Originally Posted by D.W.

......The cost here for 10 7 inch slim files (my go to for 4 1/2 - 5 1/2 point rip saws) was $63 shipped.

$6.30 a file at your door - 'Arf yer luck, DW! I just ordered a batch of 5" DESTs, and they cost me more than double that each, even shipping was excessive, I thought. What you have to swallow when you are desperate & in a hurry.

I'll see what these are like, but I sure hope they are better than the files I was using yesterday. They are supposed to be DEST, but the edges were so fat (& variable!), and they were so brittle, I was having real trouble sharpening a 12 tpi x-cut to anything I would call presentable..

Cheers,

Shame the quality is that bad. I guess some places have no pride. The edges on the bahcos are a bit fat, but that probably makes them a bit more durable. And they are fat in an even and consistent way. I haven't seen any xx slim tapers here other than 6 inch, though, and have had to go elsewhere for anything smaller and xx slim - not much of that is great.

I never considered using a jeweler's file until it was brought up on here, but have a half dozen small xx slim files left. I hope they last a long time, my days of getting saws to pick good ones out are over - i hope.