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Thread: Bessler's Wheel
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21st January 2017, 05:50 AM #1Banned
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Bessler's Wheel
G'day Mates,
This is one project I have ben pursuing and will get back to. It's potential to work can be calculated as torque an work or conservation or angular momentum.
I will be posting more information on this as time goes by. It is based on the work that Johann Bessler left behind.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Bessler
I do have a basic buoyancy design I will be working on until I can return this. With Bessler, 6 rpm's is claimed an I think possible.
Jim from up top )
an animation;
https://goo.gl/photos/aL55pPihbpFy34U96
it's the pictures on the left and right, the picture in the center needs to be deleted.Last edited by James_; 21st January 2017 at 06:12 AM. Reason: change pic, add info
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21st January 2017 05:50 AM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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21st January 2017, 08:59 AM #2
Okay Jim, You've got my attention...lot of work in any animation.... Cheers, crowie
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22nd January 2017, 02:45 AM #3Banned
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Thanks crowie.
With Bessler's work I think this design helps to show what he knew that has been over looked.
I've found a lot of people do not understand how torque is converted into work. A basic example
is if a 1 kg weight 1 meter from it's fulcrum drops 1 m. This work that torque does can lift another
1 kg weight 1 m.
Since this design allows for 2 opposing weights on levers to move 1/2 m closer to center, the work they
require to move to center is 3/4 of the work they perform. This means that 25% of the work that 2
opposing levers do is net force or extra energy.
@All,
The link is to Bessler's Maschinen Tractate (mechanical drawings),
Portal:MT - BesslerWiki
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22nd January 2017, 04:39 PM #4Woodworking mechanic
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James,
where do you study/where have you studied physics?
Cheers
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23rd January 2017, 06:03 AM #5Banned
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Lappa,
I've Studied physics on my own. While thermodynamics states that perpetual motion is impossible, conservation of momentum does not. The difference is that this design is not powered by heat. With conservation of momentum, theoretically the Earth would slow it's rotation an amount equal to the momentum transferred to the wheel.
With what I have posted, it is basic work calculations. The secret is in how the weights on the 2 opposing levers are
retracted. It is not shown. This is so I can show some of Bessler's work and how it relates to this design.
Jim
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23rd January 2017, 09:21 AM #6
James,
as you probably know rotational work can be calculated by multiplying torque by angular displacement.
What do you believe the instantaneous torque is for a weight on the circumference of a circle when that weight is at the 3, 4, 5 and 6 o'clock positions?
Regards
SWK
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24th January 2017, 01:38 AM #7Banned
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SWK,
I have developed a formula for calculating net torque/force. It's ver balance/mass * distance(1) + mass * distance(2) = net force
An example is 1kg * .125 meter/1kg * 1 meter + 1kg * 1.125 meter = NF
9.8 N-m * .125/2kg * 2.125 meter = NF
1.225/9.8 N-m * 2.125
1.225/20.825 = .0588 N-m and if 9.8 * .0588 = 0.576 m/s velocity
With the question you asked, net torque can be multiplied by the radian for 90 °, 120°, 150° and 180°.
At 90° it is .0588 N-m's. 120° is 0.509 N-m's, 150° is .024 N-m's ad 180° is 0 N-m's of torque.
@All,
The 2 links are something to consider. With the Finsrud device, because it uses magnets it is technically a
SMOT device. With the Atmos clock, it uses thermodynamics to work.
Jim
The Finsrud Device (Norway)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOVz1wDFRDI
The Atmos Clock (Switzerlad)
THE ATMOS CLOCK PAGE
p.s., the reason I calculated net torque at 1/2 of it's actual value is because 2 weights would be accelerating.Last edited by James_; 24th January 2017 at 03:57 AM. Reason: add information
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29th January 2017, 06:18 AM #8Banned
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That comes from AP Part I, Chapter XLIII. (43) (page 81)...
.
.
Zur Zeit mag noch ein jedes rahten/
Durch was für wunderbahre Thaten
Diß schwehre nach dem Centro kehrt/
Und jenes in die Höhe fährt. &c.
.
.
Here's my translation of that:
.
.
for the time being may everyone still guess,
through what kind of wonderful actions
this turns/returns heavily towards the centre,
and that shoots/pops up. &c.
This was posted by a guy named Stewart. I believe he is describing a trick of motion.
With this basic animation, all 4 weights would use the same type of levers. This would
mean that all weights would perform work.
The second image shows that as the weights are pulled towards the axle that their
force increases. If a 1kg weight at 1 meter from the axle and is moving at 1 m/s if it is
"pulled" to be 50 cm's from the axle, it's force becomes 1 kg * 4 m/s. It's torque becomes
twice as much. Conservation of angular momentum is often over looked in physics.
added; when weight pops up, a weight is also popping down. They work together and
cancel out gravity. Why they pop "out" is inertia. If the weights have 1 kg * 4 m/s, then
mv^2/r =force. This means 1 kg * 4 m/s^2/.5 meter = f. That's 32 kgf, weights will pop
outward.Last edited by James_; 29th January 2017 at 06:25 AM. Reason: add information
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30th January 2017, 06:02 AM #9Banned
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@All,
I'll simplify the math some. If the path of the weights is 2 meters in diameter, it will rotate about 3 times a minute.
Wile that is slow, it would be a start. If the wheel were 1 meter in diameter then 6 rpm's would be likely. Also, one
important detail has been omitted. While it is a simple detail, the mechanics that would allow it to matter might be
ignored.
When Bessler said "through what kind of wonderful actions
this turns/returns heavily towards the centre", this might be the weights on the short levers. With his clues,
he is IMHO describing different wheels that he built this means that if the specific wheel that he was referring to was
being discussed hen the would be a better match. When h said "heavily", that could be another way of saying slowly.
Jim
my facebook photo album for m perpetual motion page.
https://www.facebook.com/Perpetual-M...701405/photos/
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30th January 2017, 07:18 AM #10Banned
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@All,
Please remember the drawing isn't quite to scale. The quote is from
Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum
Johann Bessler, Kassel, 1719, pp. 16
Around the firmly placed horizontal axis is a rotating disc (low or narrow cylinder) which resembles a grindstone. This disc can be called the principle piece of my machine. Accordingly, this wheel consists of an external wheel (or drum) for raising weights which is covered with stretched linen. The base of the cylinder is 12 Rhenish feet in diameter. The height (or thickness) is between 15 and 18 inches. The axle (or shaft) passing through the center is 6 feet long and 8 inches thick cross-sectionally
Das Triumphirende Perpetuum Mobile Orffyreanum - Johann Bessler
Got a blank page mostly when editing.
When the top weight pops up, this I because of inertia, mv^2/r. If gravity is 9.8 m/s then a force of 19.6 m/s is needed to make a top and bottom weight
weightless. At a velocity of 1 m/s, 2 weights having their radius reduced by 1/2, r/2, then they have a force of 5.8 m/s acting on them. This reduces the
amount of work that the 2 dropping levers need to do.
With the drum, if it is 0.5 meter in diameter in diameter, then a wheel rotating 180° will retract a weight on a scissored lever 0.5 meter. The drum does
not rotate.
Jim
with the drum rotating in Bessler's quote, possible he said it to confuse literal people.
with his code, becomes O. It's the opposite if the alphabet has both a top half and a
bottom half.Last edited by James_; 30th January 2017 at 07:29 AM. Reason: add information
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30th January 2017, 07:48 AM #11Banned
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with his code, B becomes O and Bessler becomes Orrfyre which is one reason he called his wheel Orrfyreus.
the link is to drawer slide rollers. they should allow or easy movement weights.
32-096 1-1/8" Drawer Slide Roller, Threaded Axle : SWISCO.comLast edited by James_; 31st January 2017 at 02:04 AM. Reason: add information
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1st February 2017, 07:01 AM #12Banned
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@All,
With chair's caster, it could ride n a groove as Bessler shows in his Mt 26. A weight could be on both sides of it but using 2 casters
with a weight in the middle will be easier. The drawing I did is to show how basic the frame will be. I may add circular rim when finished. I will b posting dimensions and weights, etc. as I start building it. I may start n it this weekend.
The "drum" as Bessler called it will be 2 pieces, one on each side of the wheel mounted on the stand. I will explain the math, it's not that complicated.
Jim
edited to add;
@All,
I will start explaining the specific mechanics. I will start with the 2 opposing that are lifted by the 2 opposing levers. I will show them retracting together as the
wheel rotates. Then when I discuss how the levers work together, they will work in a similar way. If you look at the picture I added, it's a spool. The line that wraps
around it 1/2 turn is twice as long as the radius. A 0.5 meter radius allows for a line 0.5 meters by a wheel rotating 180°. And this requires NO WORK, highlighting and
not shouting. This is where free energy would be realized.
A lot of what will be posted might not be something new but the way it is used in a Bessler Wheel is.
Please watch the video; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RVyhd3E9hYLast edited by James_; 2nd February 2017 at 02:36 AM. Reason: add information
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3rd February 2017, 02:55 AM #13Banned
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@All,
The link is to my facebook page Perpetual Motion's photo albums to show some of what I have worked on.
https://www.facebook.com/Perpetual-M...701405/photos/
Because of my medical situation, I no longer have that shop. And with what I have posted so far, it would be
an involved build. I am going to try and entice someone into doing a simpler build. It will be 60 cm's in diameter,
dimensions can be changed if desired, the weights will be 250 grams and drawer slides might work for moving
weights. an example https://www.amazon.com/Apexstone-Dra...+drawer+slides
Bessler's wheel is a hobby among other things and hopefully I can show an ingenious design that someone might think would
look good in wood. I have messaged a rare book library (Bart Jaski | Utrecht University - Academia.edu) in the Netherlands who has an actual
book that Bessler wrote in 1719 (?) Inexhaustible energy | University Library Utrecht.
Bart knows that I am pursuing a build of this wheel, Bessler's Apologia Poetica
I think displaying it with Bessler's book would be pretty cool and might remind people that wood workers were the original engineers. That last part I kind of lost to/in history.Last edited by James_; 3rd February 2017 at 03:00 AM. Reason: add information
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4th February 2017, 05:21 AM #14Banned
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@All,
The 2 pictures are the same except for the "grind stone". To give something like this the best chance of working, the 2 weights at 6 o'clock and 12 o'clock
(0° TC (top center) and180° BC (bottom center) will need to be retracted as well when the wheel rotates. It will seem complex at first. Please remember, have spent a lot of time working on this. It will be next month when I can start building. That give me this month to show everyone the design, show some of my previous work and talk about Bessler.
With the scissored levers, they will rotate 15°. The short levers will be able to rotate 30°. This will allow the end of the lever to always be 90° to the "grind stone". This is important and once understood, everything else will be easier. This is because everything else will be something that everyone probably has some experience with already.
And I this works out, I've heard that Australians know how to barbecue.
The next few posts will show different ways Bessler had a top and bottom weight move together.
JimLast edited by James_; 4th February 2017 at 05:25 AM. Reason: add comment
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5th February 2017, 03:03 AM #15Banned
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I'll post a quick reminder, I'm not Bessler but I do believe he was successful
With Mt 40;
"No. 40: This is a somewhat different stork' s-bill invention. The weight-levers A pull up figures B –which have the joining point at C- and also pull up the weights D by means of the poles E. The figures correspond in the center at F; thus it becomes light at G and heavy above at the superior weight. Whoever thinks it proper can construct these figures on an axle."
<dl><dd>- Johann Bessler
MT 21-40 - BesslerWiki
With pulleys, inertia would allow the top weight to "pop up" while the bottom weight drops a little. Scissor allow for weights to b moved and controlled.
</dd></dl>Last edited by James_; 5th February 2017 at 03:04 AM. Reason: correct a mistake
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