Thread: Additional rot protection if boat is epoxy sealed.

Howdy Simon,

Sorry .. I really did not mean it to be personal at all. That was not the intention. I was trying to show both the positive and the destructive side of "belt and braces".

Like all well-meant advice you can ignore it, use part, or take it whole, or use it to kick off another tangent of thought, which is what the forum is for. You have every right to build the boat the way you want too!

Comparing to Fibreglass boats is exactly the point.

Compare the picture of Peter's "Gruff" above and compare it to any 12 year old fibreglass sailing dinghy. The state of Gruff is common for wood epoxy boats of that age.

An epoxy sealed and premium materials boat will look much better than a fibreglass boat after 10 years, PAR, I and many others in the industry have seen it again and again. I keep running into wood epoxy boats that were built by people who became friends 10, 15 or 20 years ago when I started in this. And they almost all look like gruff, or a new coat of varnish makes them do that.

I can't see any reason that with sensible maintenance (gruff is due for a revarnish now a couple of years after that pic) that any of these boats will not be going fine in another 20 years. There really is no deterioration of the basic structure.

A ten year old fibreglass boat is starting to look rather shabby usually - dull gelcoat, crazing in the corners, floppy sections in the bottom (particularly smaller raceboats), rot in the wood that has been used to stiffen the things up without protecting it (particularly powerboats, dents in foam cores - raceboats again. There is also the problem of maintaining them .. there is not a great deal you can do - planned obsolescence sold as low maintenance!?!

The problem of wood meaning "rot" or "high maintenance" or "heavy" is leftover thinking from a long time ago. The problem is with the assumption that you are making. I am trying to present data that indicates that your assumption is wrong.

With a properly built epoxy, timber boat maintenance is a consideration in terms of doing the job right at the beginning and if you happen to do damage to the coating then it is time to fix it. Maybe not right away either ... I have often just put duct tape over a slightly damaged section for a couple of weeks on my raceboats.

Or if you observe something going wrong .. then do something about it (mostly to do with clear finished surfaces exposed to sunlight ... a problem on any boat).

Really ... I am trying to be helpful.

Best wishes
Michael

No offense taken, thanks for all the good ideas. Newbies like me sometimes have flights of fancy which I'm sure make old hands think "I thought we'd buried this old chestnut years ago"
I had just wondered whether Bordeaux mixture had been thought of for timber (one of my "hats" is horticulture) It was the first fungicide discovered which didn't wash off in the rain, and revolutionised treatment of grape vine fungus infestation back in the 1800's.
I'll stick with epoxy as suggested. Cheers

Hope this is not too far off topic, but I was wondering whether Mik recommends extending the thinking on the epoxy system to toe-rails, which are traditionally bedded in flexi-goo and screwed onto a deck? This still seems to be frequent current practice.
It occurred to me that except for the issue of remnant screws, toe-rails could be epoxied and painted as per the rest of the hull, and any wood needing replacement could simply be routed off and new wood grafted on. Probably most could have all screws removed on curing- except possibly very curved ones.
I don't mean to hijack the thread, but this is rather topical for me at the moment.

What boat and what is the substrate being glued to Rob?

MIK

My Waller 540 Mik. The deck is ply, but the toe rails are over hardwood sheerstrakes (under the ply). The deck will be glassed, as per the whole hull exterior. The traditional method implies that from an engineering perspective, that the toe rails are a fitting, I think, whereas epoxying them would make them part of the 'monocoque'. That appeals to me more.

Of course it is. On a smaller boat (like the waller) I would be pretty happy to glue it down .. don't forget a few limber holes to stop water pooling on the deck.

Probably would suggest a fastening at each end ... the timber can get a belt there from a spinnaker pole or anchor or clumsy hoof and run the risk of splitting off the deck. But prevent it at the ends and it is very unlikely to happen anywhere else.

To bring it in line with the thread ... this is belts and braces!!! But four screws for the boat is not overkill. Figure out the likely failure mode (splitting) and do the minimum to prevent it.

Bigger boats I would probably screw at regular intervals because all sorts of things can be tied to the toerail .. from lacing for the lifelines (to prevent headsails washing overboard) through to sails on much bigger boats (and bigger toerails). If you are going to use the toerails for such purposes on the Waller then regular screws would not be sill there either.

Best wishes
MIK

Best wishes
Michael

Thanks very much Mik

As Michael points out a toe rail can be fairly easily damaged, which is why it typically is bedded not bonded.. This permits it's removal when necessary. Also a lot of decks are covered with a renewable material (paint, canvas, etc.), you can paint around the toe rail or remove it, refinish under it, then re-install it, with new bedding.

In my way of doing things, I go by size. I just glued down a 3/8" x 3/4" tall toe rail on a 17' dayboat. If this toe rail was much bigger, then I'd strongly consider fastening it down over bedding.

Epoxy is about the pest wood preservative available.

Originally Posted by PAR

Epoxy is about the pest wood preservative available.

Yes, we all know it's a bugger to work with but how good is it?

Richard

(I love typos, especially other peoples )

Damn, I pray to Dog every night this dyslexically will go away . . .