Thread: durable cheap non slip finish.

Yes ... really fine sand is quite useful.

If it is coarse it is like sandpaper and will strip off skin if it is moving fast.

Another neat way is to do the same but sprinkle a coarse grained sugar .. raw or coffee sugar. Don't press it into the surface. Just let it sit on top. Then the next day wash away the sand with water and let the paint or varnish dry for an extra day after that.

If you use varnish .. the boat still looks varnished!

Another way to get a clear finish is to use very find wood dust like from a sander.

Surfboard makers sometimes use dust from sanding the foam surfboard blanks.

Personally I like the sugar method ... but beware ... you need to rinse the boat out very carefully.

Otherwise you get ants!!!! Which can be inconvenient.

Someone once suggested epsom salts. I took some but the ants did not go away.

BEst wishes
Michael Storer

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Someone once suggested epsom salts. I took some but the ants did not go away.

You took some epsom salts and the ants were where?

RIchard

There are quite a number of texturing methods that can be used....I've tried a few of them.

the soluable grain method can be a bit iffy with water bassed paints and it isnt as durable as the overcoated sand method.

Lots of people try sand just sprinkled on top of the last coat.....it doesn't last long, the sand breaks away and comes off quite quickly.

of course... this all depends on whether you are a bare foot boatie or not.
Me I'm a boot wearer.....wetsuit boots keep my toes warm and there is no way I'll wander arround a boat ramp in bare feet.

so a bit more agression in a non slip finish suits me.

cheers

Yep, sand is great, we have used it on several runabouts with both enamels and acrylics, never had problem. I am thinking though after reading Miks post that the coffee crystals may look nice on the decks of the hartley when it's finished

Ya know what would look realy specky on a clear finished boat.

theatrical glitter..... bigger and chunkier than metalic flake usualy seen in paints.

cheers

Originally Posted by soundman

There are quite a number of texturing methods that can be used....I've tried a few of them.

the soluable grain method can be a bit iffy with water bassed paints and it isnt as durable as the overcoated sand method.

cheers

Good point soundman ... I hadn't thought of that!!! I rarely use water based paints, I guess.

Glad you mentioned it before someone tried it!!!

MIK

I had a mate that kept all his wine bottle corks and grated them then used them in a similar fashion to above . The top paint wore off quickly and the result was fairly reliable as a non slip surface which kept working even if the cork came out .Softer on the skin in a slip too.

Must say we had many pleasant evenings building up the cork stocks.

I've begrudgingly applied, but more importantly removed paint, textured with sand. It's an easy method to get good results as described above, but you'll curse the day you applied it repeatedly as you're attempting to remove it. It doesn't sand off, so you have to heat it up and scrape, which isn't all that unusual, unless there's sand in the paint.

I prefer fine crushed walnut or pecan shells and I've also use "railroad ballast", which is the stuff they use to simulate the stones between the tracks on model railroads. Another fine product is ground up rubber, especially if you're using an oil based or a polyurethane paint. All of these will sand off when it's time to re-do the paint job.

I use this stuff http://www.altexboatpaint.com/shop/A...Particles.html

A tin seems to last forever and it provides a really good non skid surface. Much quicker to put a few spoonfulls in the paint than grating or crushing bits and pieces.

fwiw

AD

Originally Posted by soundman

there have been a couple of threads about putting a deck in a tin boat of late and having just completed I thaught I would share my non slip finish method.

Now from the start this is no hard and fast must do method but it will give a point to start from and some ideas.

I wouldnt say this would not be the go for a fine yacht or such but its good enough for a runabout or such.

I've been using this method for quite some time on things like ramps and stage steps......I just used this finish on the deck for the boatinlaw.

firstly fill any holes or imperfections with a good filler I like automotive bog or plastibond.

sand the surface down to 120 gritt.

apply a generous coat of thinned...... realy thinned undercoat or sealer going arround the edges twice before you do the face of the board you want this coat to soak in......... i realy like wattyl super etch ( thinners based) and have used estipol sanding sealer too ( under paving paint, both are polyester).

let this coat dry out well and sand to 120 again

lay on another thinned coat... remember to go round those edges twice.

depending on the type of primer you use you may want to sand again.

next select your top coat.... you want something durable something for the exterior........enamel, water bassed enamel substitute like enamacrill, I have used polyester paving paint but it isn't that great permanently exposed.
you dont want anything that dries tooo fast or cant be retarded a bit.

any way
again thin this top coat quite a bit......it still needs some body...if there is a retarding thinner use it.
give the whole surface an even coat......let it dry the appropriate recoating time.

now... if you want the whole surface non slip mis this next step

paint up another coat on the parts you dont want non slip with a decent overlap into the non slip area......let this all dry up.

now either mask or paint to a line the areas you want non slipped....be reasonably generous with the application... tend on the heavy side if in doubt

While the area is still properly wett dust a very solid coat of clean sieved sand over the painted area..... total coverage is best not just a salting.

If you have a big area or the paint is going off you mightwnat to sand sections as you go keeping behind your wett edge........ the paint needs to be well wett when the sand is applied or it wont stick properly.

it is best to make sure you sand is fine, clean, dry and finely sieved.
Washing the sand first and spreading it out to dry is not a bad idea.

allow the paint to go off a little and then either press or roll the sand down lightly with a rolling pin or a laminate roller.

let the paint go off pretty well.... then... gently with a soft brush whisk the excess sand off and away.........a light blow with compressed air will then remove any remainig free material and dust.

now apply a coat of thinned topcoat over the entire area being carefull to use a light touch and work the paint into the gritt with cross strokes.

let this coat dry suitable recoating time and apply another coat.

allow this whole lot to dry very well before walking on it..... some paint will take a day or two to harden up.

this should give a good looking and durable finish that dont cost a fortune.

let me know how it works for you.

cheers

I have a problem with parts of this ! When I have seen car bog or the like used on cars (metal) the panel-beaters don't prime the metal (They should but I havn't seen one do it) they just put bog straight on and then sand patch etc and final prime just before painting.

I have seen a lot of examples where moisture has ended up under the bog against the steel and the bog is forced up. This in as short a time period as 5 years.

So I swapped to using epoxy and Q-cells ,micro-spheres and in past years talc. I have in mind one Range Rover bonnet which was done this way and is still good after 17 years. Epoxy in liquid form does not cost a great deal more than polyester so I use it always. Likewise why use plated screws when stainless cost very little more by the box these days.

Now one piece of the post I like is etch primer on the metal . A must in my opinion. If you can get to a boat yard and see a Ferro cement boat being made , watch when the mesh is being tied. If it gets wet or moist from dew or condensation there is a transfer of zinc from the wire to the rods. I think this takes place under good metal primers too so an etch primer with lots of zinc powder in it is my choice. Just like the primer used by good sand blasters.

So on the post above , if you are doing a boat of steel or timber then I would not put car bog or the like anywhere near it. It is polyester based and it is porus . Water passes through it. I don't think it came through the steel of the cars but rather somehow through the paint coat ,a crack or scratch somehow . It will not pass through epoxy putty. I etch prime steel first and then apply epoxy putty.

Now you will note that I was talknig about applying automotive bog to timber..... absolutly nothing to do with steel... automotive bog adhered to timber extreemly well, and if there is a problem with porosity it isnt on the part of the bog.

now to your ststement about bog on cars...........for the most part it is not recommended to prime under bog, because the paint allow a sheer plane and the bog falls out......... the exception is etching wash primers that have very little or no film thickness..........the hot rod boys for the most part etch prime prior to filling...... even on chasis.

Some of the reasons bog falls out............
Failure to achieve a decent key.......the surface shoul be coarsely abraided prior to application 80 gritt or coarser is good.
Failure of the overlying finish, very common on old bangers......the bog job was fine but the paint is past its use bu and has allowed moistur to pass into the bog and the metal beneath corrodes.
Failure to wett out the surface whilst bogging.......when the bog was applied it was not sufficiently ground into the matal as part of the application therfore the bog neve got properly intimate with the surface
contamination of the surface or failure to clean the surface of oil and foreign matter........you need to solvent wipe prior to bogging.
Use of inappropriate amounts of bog....... bog works best in relativly deep small holes.... laying bog on in wide shallow sections lake half a door skin will almost always come off.
Failure of the bog product due to improper mixing, stale product, product going off to early and a variety of other reasons are also very common.
Using bog isnt as simple as some would like to think.

For the mots part bog is very cheap and easily available....... good marine epoxy isnt realy all that cheap and is nowhere near as easy to obtain or use.

As far as a steel boat is concerned one would hope that not too much bog is used....... but that is absolutely nothing to do with the origanal post or any thing subsiquent.

now as to etch prime.
The material I was using is Wattyl Super Etch, which is an etching primer and undercoat intended for metal.
It is thinners based and has become ver popular in the metal trades.
I use it for all sorts of things and fine it works very well on timber as well and also not to bad on plastics.


to other matters
I would have to agree that removing a sand based non slip finish would be a real pain, As said before I would not recomend it for a quality marine project.

The puropopse made non slip products mat likley would be a more viable proposition in many cases.

cheers

All very interesting points but it occurs to me that you can buy a non slip product to mix with the paint for about $6 why would you bother with a substitute. I have only ever used the commercial stuff and found it ok to walk on and a lot better than sandpaper. Mind you at my age a bit of sandpaper on my feet now and then would show a bit of improvement to them.

Just want to push in a more moderate direction with the choice of grit.

Sand ... can be sandpaper. I have seen feet and knees cut wide open, wetsuit booties or wetsuits ripped.

The grade of sand is everything, but the plastic material that is commercially available in a tin for the job is not expensive and does go an awful long way. As does sugar (using the wash away version above), cork, woodflour.

All of these are more benign than the sand can be. But the right grade of sand can be ok too. But the only useful way to get it off is to use a heat gun ... a sander usually won't help when you go to recoat as the paper goes blunt as fast as the sand does!

MIK

http://www.mig-welding.co.uk/body-filler.htm

The above is a quite helpful site dealing mainly with welding but it shows the commonly accepted method of putting putty directly onto metal. ( Deck on a tin boat was mentioned so I thought my post relevant).

Simply, my point is that moisture often gets in there ,condenses against the cold steel , the steel rusts and expanding rust pushes the patch off the metal.

How it gets in ? any number of ways with porus fillers but I would say the most likely answer is that the filler absorbs moisture from the atmosphere when it is applied and sanded. Go to a panel beaters and you will see cars around in this state ready for primer . They are not in a heated booth . If they bother with a booth it will be only the most professional and I have never seen one bother.

Easy answer - use epoxy filler and prime the metal . I use Wattle etch primer too exclusively. Scuff it and the epoxy will stick to it far better than polyester to steel.