Last things First

**Rik** · 22nd June 2009, 03:07 PM

Before I get to my project, I'd just like to say that I love this place. I've been reading, learning, laughing and loving the mixture of passion, knowledge and amusing posts since I stumbled across this forum a little while ago. Thanks to the creators, administrators and contributors: it's second to none.

Now, Last things first: I just bought another boat.

Two years ago, I found my first boat in the classifieds, for free. I drove an hour, bought a trailer plug and bulbs, fixed the trailer electrics, pumped it's old tyres, and drove my boat home. Then I research fixing it and was finally pursuaded that two hundred hours and hundreds more dollars weren't for throwing at boat shaped firewood. Then, last spring, after a lot of coaxing, my wife was pursuaded that we should buy our first boat. It was a cheap Hartley TS16 just down the road in Wangarratta, only 8 hrs drive from Sydney where I live. My eight year old son and I drove down. I inspected the rather shaggy boat thoroughly and we drove it back home where I came to realise the importance of both words in the term Trailer Sailer.

I'd inspected the Hartley and it's shabbiness hadn't escaped me but I'd done little more than glance at the trailer and now I discovered the tyres were dangerously perished, the hubs needed throwing out and while the front of the trailer looked great, you could put your finger through most of the frame at the back. My son and I were lucky to be alive and I now know for a fact that bushrangers can still be found in Kelly country.

Because the poor boat looked like her eyes had been poked out, I took off the painted porthole plexi before starting to sand and look for a trailer. We soon found a trailer but it had a boat on it. A little later I knew that my wife is prone to temporary madness and I had another boat. A pretty little wooden Hartley TS12 built by Hugh Murray, the man we bought it from. Boat one still needed work but at least we could get sailing on this:

http://dsn.au.com/Gallery/Image.php?...3-00145edc1a86

Months later, I found a good trailer, pulled the TS16 onto some tyres, cut the gear off the old trailer, bolted it to the new and kept looking for cheap plexi. I just bought the plexi last week for $20 from Reverse Garbage in Marrickville - nine months later, but hey: I've been sailing.

I've also been reading up at this site and others, and found a mate keen to help float the boat but, uh-oh, about a month ago, I accidently bought another wooden boat: a shabby little Manly Junior for my eight year old son. It floats but my son and I want to strip it, paint the hull red (to match it's new name "Red Rocket") and see if the timber deck can easily be restored or otherwise paint it white. So that was the new priority except that, well, you can't have a very inexperienced eight year old out on the water by himself and it's too small a boat for me to sit in so, yeah you guessed it, I ... um ... bought another wooden boat.

Yesterday I picked up a glass hulled, ply decked NS14. It need more work than shown in the listing pic, taken before it was left in the sun and rain for way too long. I very nearly walked away but then he came up with to a price that made it just too hard to do that.

I know what you're thinking.

A) his wife;s insane and where do I get one like her.
B) Four boats: what a greedy bastard, but listen, I did forget to tell you that I sold the TS12 at the end of the season and the beginning of a family recession, so I only have three, ok?

Now boat one is a do-it-very-slowly project. I still have to figure out how to get the plexi attached in a way that pleases the eye and doesn't cost an arm and a leg and I have to find out how to do another repair. My boys MJ will be a pleasure to paint and so on but it's already floatable and just awaiting a daddy boat. SO that leads me to the latest boat as the place to start. Apart from everything else, I fear that if I leave it, as is, for much longer, the deterioration will get to the stage that it's just not worth doing and this pretty little thing will be firewood.

So last things first. I have to get the NS repaired. Thankfully the hull is glass or the last owner's neglect would have wrecked it like he almost wrecked the rest. As for the rest, well, a cursory look under the front deck, shows that the little framing it has seems, miraculously, ok though ribbing needs to be reattached to the deck in at least one place. Then there's the cockpit and deck: featuring soft exposed thin grey timber in lots of places and a few spots where you can poke your thumb through.

I suppose you would want to see a few pics to know for sure (and if it stops raining long enough I'll take some) but meanwhile I'm wondering if I'll have to remove the replace the deck or remove it to epoxy the underside of it, or if I can just somehow spray the underside of it with a gun in or something.

Then I thought (or hoped) to patch the deck (and cockpit floor), epoxy them, (filling or otherwise mending the holes) and, lastly, just epoxy some thin ply (or some pretty stripping) over the top and finish that. The weight would be increased a little but I don't mind, as long as the result would be strong enough. What do you think?

I've got a mate who works for a timber seller so I might be able to get some cheap stripping and I am a bit keen on using it after finding a great article that covers that process (and a few others) here at: <http://204.178.16.26/who/pfps/canoe/deltav/>

The total cost for the NS and the MJ is only about four hundred dollars so far. I bought both these little boats because I don't have much money to splash around. I'm looking for cheap, sound but elegant solutions to get the kids and I on the water without too much fuss, in presentable boats, with a few new woodworking experiences to remember. Then, over time we'll find some less ugly sails and so on.

WIth luck, this latest little batch of woodwork experience might also be a good warm up to prepare me for working on the slightly bigger TS16. I want to get that in the water by Spring or early Summer so I can get a bit a bit more sailing experience before we trade it up to a shabby little twenty four footer in another season or two. I'm working towards taking the family on the occasional little weekend or week-long cruise

Arrrrrrrrrrrr Mateys, it's a lovely life.

Hope to hear back from you soon,

Rik

**rob540** · 22nd June 2009, 04:01 PM

Well that gives us something to think about!

Welcome aboard Rik. Sounds like you'll need Mik and Par in overdrive to fight the battle on so many fronts...but one at a time might be OK for us lesser mortals who provide interest without brains necessarily attached (speaking for my self you understand).
Nice looking little TS12.
Rob

**honkongphoie** · 22nd June 2009, 05:34 PM

Originally Posted by rob540

for us lesser mortals who provide interest without brains necessarily attached (speaking for my self you understand).
Nice looking little TS12.
Rob

i'd fit in that category very well too Rob

thats a lovely TS12 Rik and good luck on the project front

**Rik** · 22nd June 2009, 05:41 PM

Yes it is delightful little TS12. Never failed to draw an admirer or three when I launched or sailed her. Sorry to see her go but the darling wife just couldn't see the need for four boats. I'm partial to doing one boat repair at a time too. The image that was used to sell the NS14, here shows her in her much better days <http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI....ayphotohosting>. Hopefully I'll have it looking that good again soon. In the meantime, I think the most important thing I can do is get a bung hole into it. I just discovered that it is fuill of rainwater. I turned it over and got much of it out but there's no chance of getting it completely drained and dry without a bung. Given that the hull is glass though, I suppose I'll have to find another forum for that.

**rob540** · 22nd June 2009, 05:53 PM

Rik, I'm probably safe in saying that the deck will have to come off. You don't want to spray epoxy, and if you want to protect the inside with epoxy you'll need to poke into every nook and cranny before, during and after coating.
My guess is that the experts will tell you to LAY IT ALL BARE and mortgage the house again, and post lots of pics so we can enjoy the process without spending the time....or the money...but we'll be there for you when you get depressed. Honest.

I posted this while you were posting the above reply, the fibreglass hull does change things, but even to save the existing deck if there is damage, I'd be inclined to take it off....perhaps though, you don't want a full restoration just a sort of flotation?

**Rik** · 22nd June 2009, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by rob540

Rik, I'm probably safe .... LAY IT ALL BARE ... post lots of pics so we can enjoy ... without spending ... money...but we'll be there for you ... Honest.

I posted this while you were posting the above reply, the fibreglass hull does change things, but even to save the existing deck if there is damage, I'd be inclined to take it off....perhaps though, you don't want a full restoration just a sort of flotation?

Yeah, the glass hull makes everything better doesn't it. Seeing how poor the exterior was I'd have walked if it the hull were wood: it would have been good for mushrooms, period. I don't know what structure is under the cockpit but it seems that there's a large steel cross under the front deck and, apart from that, just ribbing which seems sound.

I'm a fool who rushes in all the time and I'd love to pull the deck off if half sure I could get it on and off without causing more grief but, if it's going to be delicate surgery, I'd best find an easier way. This isn't a charmless boat but it's no wooden boat, so I'm just happy to get it safe and get it going for now. I'd like to save my time, money and serious efforts for the 24 footer I'm hoping to get in a year or three.

**Boatmik** · 22nd June 2009, 10:41 PM

Pics first before the decks come off.

There are sneaky ways to get the deck off without disturbing the framing underneath if there are no nails or only a few bronze ring nails.

But pics are very useful to assess what has to be done.

One of the tricks is to preserve as much of the existing structure as possible to reduce labour, cost and also to keep the original feeling of the boat and to keep weight out too.

MIK

**Rik** · 23rd June 2009, 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Pics first before the decks come off ...
preserve as much existing structure as possible to reduce labour, cost and also to keep the original feeling of the boat and to keep weight out too.
MIK

Thanks. I should be able to get some pics tomorrow but I notice that to upload pics here I have to give a URL. Does that mean I need to find a hosting site for pictures or is there some other trick? Also, how detailed and close up should those pics be?

Rik

**b.o.a.t.** · 23rd June 2009, 02:12 AM

You can do them as attachments if you don't need them to be in certain places in the text.
When you reply, click on the paper-clip button next to the smiley face.
Will open a new tab (or window)
Upload your pics & close the tab/window
When you submit your reply, a thumbnail will be added to the bottom of your post.
There is a size limit to what you can upload, so you will probably need to shrink your photos before uploading.

cheers
AJ

**Rik** · 23rd June 2009, 10:49 AM

Thanks B.O.A.T..

**Rik** · 25th June 2009, 08:25 PM

OK AJ, here we go,

Well here are those pics at last: helping my darling meet a deadline got in the way..

FOREDECK

Exterior
No holes but lots of very dry, grey patches.
Wide shots in pics Fore-Ext-1 and 2, with a close up in Fore-Ext-3.

Interior
Stuck the camera inside & waved my arm about for Fore-Int-1 to 5. Don't know about you but I'm relieved that the timber still looks ok: not dried or splintered.

SIDEDECKS

Unclad (so no interior)
Sidedecks have several poorly repaired holes and a soft spot (eg pics Sidedeck-1 + 2) and four old repairs, using what looks like wood putty as in these pics Sidedeck-3 + 4.

The Timber Frame holding them up looks strong but some of the timber frame (1 x 1?) supporting the skins seems weak.

COCKPIT

Exterior
Hardly showroom but the cockpit deck (Cockpit-1 to 3) doesn't seem as bad as the foredeck. A lot less grey timber and a lot firmer feeling. I don't know if the 6 raised ply sections are repairs or reinforcement but they seem solid.

There are 8 or 12 fingerprint sized dry spots around 8 or 12 steel tacks, which don't appear to be stainless steel (Cockpit-4.jpg) and one hole (Cockpit-5).

The previous owner put a strip of glass and resin right around the boat, above the join of the wooden deck and fibreglass hull. It looks like serious work to remove it without damage so (even more than before) I hope removal of the cockpit deck isn't needed.

Interior

Clearance is too shallow to see much: but the one in focus pic I got (Cockpit-6) shows that the underside still looks pretty, despite the water sloshing aound in there (waiting for me to install a bung hole). Hopefully appearances aren't deceiving me here.

So, what do you think people? She doesn't seem as bad as when I first laid disappointed eyes on her but have a bought a dog with a few fleas in need of grooming or a dog that needs putting down. Can I get away without lifting the deck this time and still get a year or two's sailing out of her (while I put my timbertime into the TS16) or do I have to do major surgery?

Rik

**Rik** · 25th June 2009, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Pics first before the decks come off.

There are sneaky ways to get the deck off without disturbing the framing underneath if there are no nails or only a few bronze ring nails.
But pics are very useful to assess what has to be done.
One of the tricks is to preserve as much of the existing structure as possible to reduce labour, cost and also to keep the original feeling of the boat and to keep weight out too.
MIK

Well Mik, I don't know if you got the update on this topic but I finally got a chance to post those pics. I look forward to hearing what you think.

Rik

**Boatmik** · 26th June 2009, 09:15 PM

Now,

Boat is circa early '80s. The timber decks and the transition to the self draining cockpit were both happening then. Jib System is straight from that era too.

It doesn't look like the decks have been nailed down. You could set a router to the depth of the plywood (make SURE everything is tight and the bit won't drift deeper. you can put a drill into the forward buoyancy tank and drill a few millimetres either side of any framing so you know where the router has to run.

Allows you to remove everything very cleanly Plane off the gunwale strip as well and you are ready to put a new deck down.

This is the method here.
http://www.storerboatplans.com/Faq/fastrepair.html
you can right click any of the images and choose "view" to see a larger image.

If you take some pics from further back I might be able to identify the design.

Also more here in the repair section
http://www.storerboatplans.com/Faq/faqindex.html

Welcome to ask any questions these inspire.

MIK

**Rik** · 26th June 2009, 10:26 PM

Originally Posted by Boatmik

Boat ... early '80s ... timber decks ... transition to self draining cockpit (and) ... Jib System. .. It doesn't look like the decks have been nailed down ... router... depth o plywood ... tight ... drill into the forward buoyancy tank.. drill ... either side of any framing ... to remove everything very cleanly Plane off the gunwale strip .. ready to put a new deck down ... (as per) ...http://www.storerboatplans.com/Faq/fastrepair.html
... take pics further back .. to (ID) the design...Welcome to ask any questions these inspire. MIK

Thanks MIK,

I like your idea a lot ..and I fear your idea a lot: I'm still freaking at the idea of deck replacement: trying not to ignore your good advice for a short cut repair cause I know it won't last. I just have to reread your fastrepair page a few more times, multiply your time by ... hmmm ... three or four (for a more realistic idea of how long it'll take me, if I'm lucky) and take a deep breath.

Thanks for the vintage estimate. I will take some wide shots to ID the design. If ID'ed, I might find plans. Though I could trace the deck with sheets of something, plans 'd make it easier for a newbie like me to cut a new deck. And I'd have to have the new deck ready before I took off the old deck. There's always the chance of work interfering for a few days or weeks and, with all the rain we're having, I'd hate the boat to sit deckless in the yard for weeks

I've meant to get aquainted with my router since acquiring it (and those nice little routey bits it came with). Looks easy enough. I'll just make a few passes over some junk first.

There aren't nails in the deck but there are a score of small steel tacks around the perimeter and down the centre. Is that a problem (apart from being something to avoid hitting with the router bit)?

I've seen your PD Racer fast repair page before. A fellow called Clay, at Yarra Bay S.C. put me onto you and the PDs early in the season: great boat. When my son's a little bigger (say 9 or 10) I was thinking that, if he's still interested in sailing and woodwork, we might put one together. He's had 1 season sailing skyriders, a month in optimists and a maiden journey in a $100 Manly Junior I recently bought and if he's not too corrupted by all the pretty hi-tech things by then, I'd love to do it and then, who knows, maybe something bigger. Anyway. Thanks again. It's a big weekend, starting 5am at the markets tomorrow. I'll get those pics as soon as I can and post 'em. All the best, Rik

**rob540** · 26th June 2009, 11:21 PM

Originally Posted by Rik

When my son's a little bigger (say 9 or 10) I was thinking that, if he's still interested in sailing and woodwork, we might put one together. He's had 1 season sailing skyriders, a month in optimists and a maiden journey in a $100 Manly Junior I recently bought and if he's not too corrupted by all the pretty hi-tech things by then, I'd love to do it and then, who knows, maybe something bigger.

Rik if your boy sees you having fun with these projects I reckon you stand a really good chance of keeping him interested in wooden boats. There's nothing much better than a shared project.

Thread: Last things First

Thread Tools

Search Thread

Last things First

Similar Threads

From Big Things Little Things Grow

new things...

Things that go around......

Things did not get any better

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions