Thread: What wood? or not wood?

Howdy, what do the plans say to do?

Generally water getting into the wood is the problem and paints only go so far with the protection. The common way of eliminating that problem nowadays is to put three coats of a quality boatbuilding epoxy system on all the woodwork and making sure any holes are well sealed with epoxy as well.

This takes some labour and thought as any areas left undone will allow the structure to deteriorate at that point.

But it does help if the structure has been designed with this in mind and has been simplified - the more complexity, the harder the job is of course.

After the epoxy sealing the surfaces it is best to paint the surfaces as this protects the epoxy from UV.

Boats built carefully this way have lower maintenance than fibreglass boats and are in better condition after say 10 years compared to 'glass.

It is some investment in cost and labour at the beginning.

Best wishes
Michael Storer

Thanks,
The floor won't directly be in the water just occasional splash when in transit and if it's rough I suppose. If the wood is sealed (3 coats epoxy and painted) would that last longer than a steel, aluminum or alloy hull???

Don't have any plans as such just ideas from the plastic pontoon supplier. They say to just build a deck over and we are just going to build it like a terrestrial dwelling.
The specifications on maximum weight is just over 5 tonnes to 1/2 flotation.
I have tried to evenly distribute the weight figuring that would be necessary and otherwise have designed it to be built like a little house on a floating platform.
Out of respect I am mostly calling it a holiday float not a houseboat cause even though it'll have a motor and go on the water it's not fashioned like a boat and I think serious boat people would question it's boatness.

But for us it'll be just what we need to take advantage of our bay island lifestyle.
I have a building designer for the structure and plan to consult with a Navel Architect before starting to see if it's gonna float and that it's safe.


Cheers Seano1

Visit a few houseboat manufacturers and see how they are doing it. Go to a few houseboat knackers yards and see which ones fell apart and why. Go to a few hire places and see what they say. You'll probably get some grumpy receptions but you should get some good advice too.

Surely there's a home made houseboat site or similar on the internet, I can't imagine you're the only one to attempt this.

Richard

realy you carnt be serious wood better than glass by who's reasearch do you make such a claim mr storer
ive 35 years of work as a shipwright on marinas

i totaly rebuke your claims that timber is more durable than glass...
timber or glass they have the same maitenence
unless you clain theres no need to wax and polish a epoxy/ urethanne painted finish.
.ahhh my mind boggles with your clains mate ..or do you sell epxoy and wooden boat plans.. a few dinghy plans and the like does not in no way make one an expert???

''''Boats built carefully this way have lower maintenance than fibreglass boats and are in better condition after say 10 years compared to 'glass.''''



Best wishes
Michael Storer

Well Mr Viking ... after 20 (hmmm it is 30 with some breaks) years professionally on marinas myself doing all aspects of boat maintenance there except engines - I just don't understand them. And then getting into building, repairing wooden boats using modern methods just 20 years ago I wouldn't necessarily think that you parading your "experience" is a particular advantage.

The design side is much more recent than all of that.

The way you have written the above just comes across as arrogant and patronising. It is OK if you disagree, just disagree and make your point and we can tease out the facts, probably find some common ground and maybe shed some light and detail that is interesting.

I imagine we both might end up sticking to our different opinions .. which is OK.

Given that this is a discussion and may not get round to the point directly .. you are really not very good at them. You should learn to be more relaxed old bean.

Best wishes
Michael

Originally Posted by seano1

Thanks,
The floor won't directly be in the water just occasional splash when in transit and if it's rough I suppose. If the wood is sealed (3 coats epoxy and painted) would that last longer than a steel, aluminum or alloy hull???

Cheers Seano1

If you do any of the building options badly then they won't last, but if you do whichever way well they can all have a good life. What are the pontoons made of ... when you say plastic .. which one?

Ten years is probably a reasonable expectation if you use full marine grade material and appropriate protection for whichever of the materials is chosen.

This also assumes that the design is appropriate too - care about dissimilar metals or keeping water out of wood etc etc.

20 years is a long time and things get quite uncertain. Design for easy inspection and maintenance is important too.

Best wishes
Michael

The thing with the timber vs plastic debate is that timber can be repaired, fibreglass and the like can not (to the same extent). I'm not saying this from a lifetime spent repairing boats nor professional experience with either material, I'm saying this from a decade of following reports on forums and, more usefully, from some significant experience with sailing clubs looking at fibreglass boats and the pitiful condition they find themselves in compared to timber boats.

You CAN maintain a timber boat and extend it's life far more than you can a fibreglass boat. Any plastic boat is a throw away item and one should assume that I apply this to some modern fetishes for covering everything with fibreglass.

At it's worst, a boat will find itself requiring important parts being replaced - you can do this with a timber boat (though it may not be economic) but you can never do this with a fibreglass boat. The time frame for reaching this point seems to be about the same with the added bonus that paint on timber can be relatively easily repaired whereas a fibreglass boat can not be.

So, timber vs plastic, I'm with Mik and not with Viking. However, with regards to the question at hand, ie, how to build a houseboat, I refer you to my earlier post which states - go talk to the experts in houseboats and follow their lead - outside of that advice, I have no clue and would love Seano to discover the answers and provide them on this forum so that I (and others) may learn from his experience.

Richard
life's too short to make all the stuffups myself

Originally Posted by seano1

They say to just build a deck over and we are just
going to build it like a terrestrial dwelling.

g'day Sean

I urge you not to treat it as a terrestrial dwelling.
Too heavy for starters. Homes are built using the cheapest means to achieve
a certain result in a certain environment. Weight is not a factor on top of a
slab of concrete.

Too much weight in a boat sinks it.
Or, at best, makes it wallow & gives a wet ride.

I f you decide to go metal, look at caravans & commercial houseboats for guidance.

If you decide to go wood, look at similar engineered structures such as Bhil Bolger's
"Water Van" & other large epoxy/plywood boats for examples of how
to build rigid-yet-light.

cheers
AJ

........built using the cheapest means ..............Weight is not a factor on top of a
slab of concrete.

Very true, however weight is a consideration in upper story extensions. These days acrylic render over polystyrene is used as cladding. Its quick, simple, relatively cheap and surprisingly robust. It's also easily repaired, unlike the dreaded blueboard. I'm not sure about marine applications though, but considering it looks like solid brick construction it could be good for a laugh. Imagine cruising along the waterfront in a single fronted Edwardian.

Originally Posted by b.o.a.t.

g'day Sean

I urge you not to treat it as a terrestrial dwelling.
Too heavy for starters. Homes are built using the cheapest means to achieve
a certain result in a certain environment. Weight is not a factor on top of a
slab of concrete.

Too much weight in a boat sinks it.
Or, at best, makes it wallow & gives a wet ride.

I f you decide to go metal, look at caravans & commercial houseboats for guidance.

If you decide to go wood, look at similar engineered structures such as Bhil Bolger's
"Water Van" & other large epoxy/plywood boats for examples of how
to build rigid-yet-light.

cheers
AJ

at last some good advice
good one aj

Viking. Nobody on here minds constructive criticism backed up with facts.

You are over stepping the mark with some remarks made here and in other posts.

I would suggest that you read the rules, in particular personal attacks on other members, particularly moderators.

Originally Posted by

Viking. Nobody on here minds constructive criticism backed up with facts.

You are over stepping the mark with some remarks made here and in other posts.

I would suggest that you read the rules, in particular personal attacks on other members, particularly moderators.

a right to freedom of speech
i will duly cancel my membership as you seem to have not seen the facts and cannot see the nature of my gripe...its after all not the amatures that are the problem its the problem that the profesionals are behaving like amatures

Originally Posted by viking

a right to freedom of speech
i will duly cancel my membership as you seem to have not seen the facts and cannot see the nature of my gripe...its after all not the amatures that are the problem its the problem that the profesionals are behaving like amatures

You seem to have missed the point entirely.

Constant personal attack is both unwelcome and unwarranted.

We amateurs do have a problem when a post has nothing to offer but empty criticism.

Oh and you may not have noticed that this is a "Wooden Boat Forum".

Cheers
Mike

Darn it, I missed the fun . . . Let him leave, it will be a better thing, then proving fuel for more barely intelligible dialog.

In a way, I do agree with some of his assertions, considering the usually level of care and maintenance on yachts in society now. Given a level playing field and reasonable care, there's no reason a fully encapsulated yacht can't have a long, trouble free life, compared to other materials. On the other hand, reality suggests there's never a level playing field and wooden structures, even those encapsulated in goo, will fair the worst in the shortest amount of time. The reasons are simple, a ding on an encapsulated boat will eventually be a bigger issue, but on a GRP boat, probably not.


Of course I've just opened the door for Viking, but maybe he was serious about taking a hike.