Thread: Maybe it isn't just a money grubbing exercise.

Hmm Bob that is giving them the benifit of doubt for sure.

Whilst there may be some truth in what they say there is still no doubt ebay will make a LOT of money from this change.

The purchasers and sellers should have a choice of payment methods that suit the individual.

Perhaps a better way would to make it compulsory to provide pay pal as a choice along with all other payment methods, outlining the percieved benefits and allow the consumer to choose.

It should be up to the buyer if they choose to only buy from those offering Paypal because of the perceived risk of the others. So they do more research, contacting the seller, checking feedback etc

If buyers are not sensible about their online purchase safety, they can't only blame Ebay. Ebay needs to be more proactive dealing with the useless wankers out there who give legitimate sellers a bad name. Forcing everyone to use Paypal doesn't stop the bad traders being online.

Finally, there would be less resistance to the requirement if it was easier to get your money out of the Paypal bank without the current crap of withdrawal fees, time delays etc. What's the point of having protected buyers when it is by screwing the sellers? If there are less sellers, the Ebay market is lessened, and everyone looses.

From what I have heard, it is real easy for a buyer to scam the funds back with paypal.

Given the length of time it takes ebay and paypal to respond to the simplest of queries, I just don't believe this propaganda.

woodbe.

This maybe construed as a Hijack but I just purchased a new battery online from an Australian seller (not Ebay) and because I nominated PayPal rather than a Credit Card as the mode of payment they issued me an extra 1% discount off the price of the battery.

Originally Posted by woodbe

From what I have heard, it is real easy for a buyer to scam the funds back with paypal.

woodbe.

That's been true in the past, luckily I've never been caught.

The system has been (or is about to be) changed to protect sellers

From a buyers point of view, I love paying by Paypal. It costs me nothing, is quick, automatic and gives confirmations of payments/clearance etc.

From a sellers point of view, its a complete rip off IF SELLING CHEAPER ITEMS. I don't think on the whole anyone really objects to having to use Paypal, as long as the fees are more reasonable.

One thing SELLERS need to consider when accepting Paypal, is that if the buyer doesn't receive the goods and opens a paypal dispute, the onus is on the seller to prove shipping, which means if you don't, chances are you will 'loose' the dispute and have the costs refunded to the buyer by paypal. This also means to protect yourself, you must send everything registered post which means lining up for ages in the post office to send most parcels. This is what I'm going to find the biggest pain in the a*se.

Originally Posted by abitfishy

This also means to protect yourself, you must send everything registered post which means lining up for ages in the post office to send most parcels. This is what I'm going to find the biggest pain in the a*se.

Anytime I have posted something as a result of a sale on epay I always send it via registered mail, I don't even give the buyer a choice. If for no reason other than I know that it will get there and I don't have to worry about someone turning around later and accusing me of not posting something.

If you check the fine print in the changes you will also see that Paypal can withhold payment for the Seller until either positive feedback is left by the buyer, or 21 days have elapsed - granted for non specified "sensitive" items.

What does Paypal do with these "in limbo" funds? Short term money market comes to mind....

The more I think of this scheme the more I do not like it.

Combined with low cost auctions the whole deal is not worth doing anymore for the genuine odd ball items you can find at times by ordinary mums and dads trying to clear the shed etc.
Damn ebay stores have ruined ebay, bit like the internet is a global shopping centre now and finding real information is pretty hard these days, fishing through the glitzy dross.

I've been looking for a second Hitachi TR-12, and with this Paypal and pickup only, some sellers have already instigated the practice of the above. And with them following the rules (although ahead of time) it's meant the buyer has had less bidders as they've had to be local to the seller and they've received fewer bids as a result. And I've not been able to bid on them as they won't post.

Whatever way eBay want to put the spin on this, surely and hopefully it's going to turn around and bite them on the backside. I tried last night to find away of sending feedback to eBay on this, but couldn't find any.

One of the biggest problems with PayPal for sellers, aside from its fees, is that PayPal itself is judge, jury and executioner in all matters. There is no appeals process and basically no hope for you if you get caught in the machine.

If you are selling cheap or low-risk items then your biggest worry is the fees. It is relatively easy to deal with that, you just make sure you only deal in products with a big enough margin. The integration between eBay and PayPal also provides some kind of added value for the seller in monitoring large volumes of small payments.

The problem comes if you are selling more expensive items. They are more attractive to scammers, and you are more at risk from unreasonable people that want their money back before returning goods in the event of a dispute. eBay has almost a 'one click' dispute service that USUALLY results in the buyer getting refunded. The seller has to provide proof of postage THAT MUST INCLUDE ONLINE TRACKING - this is because disputes are handled by Indian call centres, not reasonable Australian managers. Registered Post does not have online tracking, so you can have all the paperwork you like but you will still lose. There have been cases of people who sent goods via TNT / UPS etc, with full online tracking, losing disputes simply because the Indian call centre did not understand that Australians write the short date differently to the Americans, and there is no 'discussion' - just supply the details on the form and either you win or lose. Black or red.

However, the 'item not received' system is not your biggest worry - the 'item significantly not as described' one is. The buyer will use this whenever they have a dispute about the item, be it a warranty issue, postal damage, a failure to read the description or whatever. In this case, the buyer will pretty much automatically get their money back on providing 'proof of postage' to PayPal. As a seller you can then be on the receiving end of damaged goods, vandalised goods, or a box full of dirt, with once again, no appeals process, no protection.

PayPal will also withhold your funds if your customer deals with another seller that turns out to be dodgy. They freeze every cent they can get their hands on that is in any way related to a 'dodgy' transaction until they are satisfied that they (PayPal) have lost no money - this can take years, they don't do anything in a hurry. If you deal with a buyer who also deals with a bad seller, you may never see your money, and a black mark goes against your name as being potentially involved (PayPal's paranoia means that they view 'scammed' buyers as potentially being in cahoots with the dodgy seller, and that you may be part of the loop too). Remember too, there is nothing to stop PayPal pocketing the cash and telling both parties they lost - there is only their 'word'. No proof, no appeal.

I don't believe for a second PayPal's hype about 'seller protection'. Have a look at their user terms and conditions, it is something like 130 pages of small print, all of it designed to let PayPal do whatever it wants to protect it's own back. The bottom line is generally that PayPal will only 'protect' (ie refund) a buyer or seller when it has successfully got the funds back from the other party. Funnily enough, the scammers are generally better at getting the cash out of the system than the honest folks, so the honest folks usually lose, whether they are buying or selling.

If you are selling high value, attractive-to-scammers items (such as power tools or electronics), or items prone to misinterpretation (such as used equipment, accessories or spare parts where the buyer needs to fully read the description to know what they are buying) then PayPal is a very bad idea. You need to factor in a certain percentage of loss - this is easier to do if you are selling baby booties than if you are selling $1000 power tools. As a result eBay's power tool sellers will become fewer and the prices higher.

Great if you need baby booties though.

I wonder how many people are just going to put "payment on collection" and then privately accept direct deposit as payment. I've already started thinking about ways around it!!

Originally Posted by Wood Butcher

I wonder how many people are just going to put "payment on collection" and then privately accept direct deposit as payment. I've already started thinking about ways around it!!

But to ask that of a seller, isn't the question made public? Or is it only if the seller wants to make that q and a public that we see ti? That's what I've been wondering about from a buyers perspective.

Not sure. Ebay would've thought of already I suppose and could well be monitoring any private messages to try and stop it I presume.

If you say that you eliminate buyers who are not in your local area as they won't even bother reading your listing