Thread: Kenyon Inspired Dovetail Saw

Originally Posted by dennford

Back from my afternoon chores, spent half an hour in the shed and roughed out something to stat with - had to allow for the fact that the holes in my saw run vertically, but I think that this will work.If not, then I shall just start again - untill I do get it right.

Denn

Hi Denn,

If I understand correctly, what you are trying to do is make a handle which is vertical, that's not what I would recommend, you still need an angle, if you grab a piece of dowell
and look at the angle of the dowell to your forearm, it's not a right angle. (I am assuming your wrist is fused, in line with the arm). Try it and see if that's correct?

Regards
Ray

Originally Posted by lightwood

Ray,
That is a pretty little saw, I love the bevel on the walnut around the screws that changes into the rounding of the handle.
The lightness of that area under the beak is something I still get occasionally, even after 32 years of drawing a design, laying it out and then putting a bevel or a chamfer on it. I still have to consciously make an allowance for it in the step between the design and cutting out the piece, leaving sufficient material to avoid it. They are lightening tricks in a design, and sometimes have to be allowed for early, and aren't at all obvious in a drawing.
I'm asked sometimes by clients to see a work in progress, but the last bit of finishing, rounding or chamfering can move the weight of a piece, or soften an edge, create a shadow, and reflect light in a particular way, and so completely change the way a piece looks. The risk is the clients sees it as unbalanced and / or clumsy. You got the reverse, it went from your well balanced design to a lightness you weren't expecting.
Some people will look at a piece of work and not like it much, and never know why. I think that once these types of design elements are understood, and how they effect the way an item is seen, they can be applied to many creative enterprises, not just tool making.
I see that you are becoming more in control of these design aspects, and as you do, your fluency in them is noticeably increasing...well done!

Regards,
Peter

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the comments..

The design, is one area I can see taking a lifetime to understand, let alone master. This saw has a nice balanced feel to it, hard to describe, I think the tapered spine, helps a little.

Regards
Ray

Ray, that is a beautiful looking item! Very sweet, elegant even. I think I'll try something like that with a Disston saw that I dropped and indeed broke the handle. It didn't have the open handle, but was pretty delicate looking, so could suit.

Cheers,

Originally Posted by RayG

Hi Denn,

If I understand correctly, what you are trying to do is make a handle which is vertical, that's not what I would recommend, you still need an angle, if you grab a piece of dowell
and look at the angle of the dowell to your forearm, it's not a right angle. (I am assuming your wrist is fused, in line with the arm). Try it and see if that's correct?

Regards
Ray

Not quite vertical, but slightly less than.

When I grasp the handle at the angle shown the saw blade is then horizontal at a couple or three inches above bench level.

I shall complete this one, then make a second at a different angle then compare the two in actual use.

Denn

Originally Posted by IanW

Peter - I looked long & hard at that fine neck, too. It certainly gives it a lightness & flow, but I'm a bit dubious about its strength over the long haul, bearing in mind that not all users have a gentle touch, & the occasional trip to the floor is inevitable in the life of a working tool.

This may be over-critical - it looks so much better than my clumsy effort. For a tool that is going to see a lot of use I too would settle on something more like the original, as Ray said, which puts a bit more beef back in the crucial spot.....

My 2c,

Here is a pic of a handle with a thin neck ,this is on a Groves dovetail saw,it has survived .
Notice how the blade is cut away just under the handle.

Ray might be worth adding this picture to the backsaw site for prosperity ,if its not already there.

Kev

Originally Posted by Woodlee

Here is a pic of a handle with a thin neck ,this is on a Groves dovetail saw,it has survived .
Notice how the blade is cut away just under the handle.

Ray might be worth adding this picture to the backsaw site for prosperity ,if its not already there.

Kev

Thanks Kev,
That Groves looks like a nice little saw, I am a big fan of Richard Groves & Son, it was a Groves saw that Peter Taran and Patrick Leach drew their inspiration from for the Independence, that they later sold out to Lie Nielsen..

Thanks, I will add that one to the gallery..

Regards
Ray

Hi RayG,
Bet you have a long list of people wanting your special xmas presents.
Your saws are amasing, I hope you have your name engraved on them so in the future people can say they have a RayG Original and pay compliment to a craftsman.

Regards,
Keith.

Hi Keith,

Thanks for the comments, no I haven't been marking the tools, maybe next one..

Regards
Ray

Well I finally got that rough cut handle shaped, sanded and fitted. I found that the handle is just the right angle - when cutting, it takes the saw blade exactly horizontal. Main problem is that the actual grip part needs reducing in length by 20mm, at the moment with my weak grip I need my fingers to be sandwiched in there.

Sorry no pic's, I have had a busy busy day.

Denn

Originally Posted by RayG

Hi Keith,

Thanks for the comments, no I haven't been marking the tools, maybe next one..

Regards
Ray

Ray, it took a while for me to scrape my jaw up off the floor and regain use of my typing digit.

Stunning saw, you have a very good eye for form, everything I have seen from you shares a simple elegance. I like

Hi Ray,

Whar everyone else said.

Love your work. The handles looks superb and very comfortable.

Cheers
Pops

I wasn't going to start these until some more pressing jobs were out of the way, but it was raining on & off the other day, & I was allowed to retire to the shed. This bit of steel RayG sent me (thanks again Ray!) was sitting on the bench, begging to be picked up, so I just picked it up......

First problem was how to cut it. Ray had advised me to use a very thin cutoff wheel, but I didn't have any on hand & it's a long way to the Big B, so I thought I might try a fine hacksaw blade, instead, just to see. I clamped the sheet between two bits of 3/16 steel & had at it - tedious stuff, but it cut ok (though the hacksaw blade sqwauked a lot & is now a bit worn-looking). The clamps prevented any distortion during cutting very effectively, & after a bit of filing of the cut edge, voila, two nice, flat, blade blanks 250 x 60 mm.

Then I had to make a jig for the drill press to take the slitting saw - funnily enough, it ended up just like Ray's jig ( - more thanks). I've not cut metal freehand like this before, & approached it with some trepidation, however, by taking a series of light but firm passes, I soon had two bits of 3/4 x 1/4 brass bar stock nicely slotted to the required depth. The 0.5mm saw makes a slot that is a neat, but loose fit for the 20-thou steel, so I gave the bar a few gentle squeezes in the vise to get it so the blades needed to be tapped in.

Then I made some split nuts & brass bolts using some 3/16 brass bolts & a bit of 3/8 rod which I was able to drill & tap in my wood lathe using two jacob's chucks - all very straightforward.

Now for some handles - my stock of sheoak was down to one rather dubious-looking piece, but by careful laying out with the template, I managed to get it to fit, (though there is a bit of sapwood & a couple of small gum spots I don't like). For the other handle, I had a piece of Black Walnut with some fiddleback figure in it I'd been saving for just such an occasion. The blanks were soon cut out using my new Scheppach scroll saw.

It was only at this point I remembered to take some pics - so pic 1 shows the blades cut out & the handles slotted to take them.

A bit of mucking about drilling & fitting the screws - pic 2.

Then after a looong afternoonof rasping, scraping & sanding, two shaped & polished handles....

Now all that's left to do is put some teeth on them, but that's going to have to wait a week or two, until I get some new needle files. On the other hand, I might become impatient & have the teeth cut on a saw-sharpening machine, but that could be considered cheating, eh Ray???

Cheers,

Beautiful job! It almost seems a shame to cut teeth in them!

Originally Posted by RayG

....No intention of selling any, that would spoil the fun I get from making them...

Hi Ray,

Beautiful craftmanship

And I agree, while you can, it is much better to give your craft as presents to people who care and you care about rather than trying to sell it.

Cheers,

Chipman