Reverse angle shooting board

[Phil Spencer]

Since retiring I have decided to flirt with the dark side, started a shooting board today nothing fancy I wanted it angled, just a gentle one about 3 degrees It is angled up as I believe that the others that slope downward are wrong.
Attachment 190579

Attachment 190580

[Blue-deviled]

Why angled? Three degrees is not really enough to indroduce some 'skew' to your cut, surely? Or are you waving this at the 'angled shooters'?

Sensible, stable choice of material!

cheers,
B-D

[Phil Spencer]

Why angled? Three degrees is not really enough to indroduce some 'skew' to your cut, surely? Or are you waving this at the 'angled shooters'?

Sensible, stable choice of material!

cheers,
B-D

Simple really, I believe that the downward sloping boards are wrong, they leave the top plane of the work exposed to tear out as it is unsupported also with a steep downward angle there is more surface area to push the plane through therefore more work on my part.

By sloping the board up those planes on the work piece that are unsupported are under compression when cut, therefore less chance of tear out. Also by reducing the angle I still receive the skew effect but there is less surface area to push the plane through there is less friction and less work.

All up this way the board is more ergonomic that a downward sloping shooting board.

[Pops]

Hi Phil,

I am with you on this one. I prefer a board with an upward incline, and believe also that this is the correct orientation for an inclined shooting board.

There are a number of reasons I prefer the inclined board as opposed to the declined board, (declining as you move forward). One reason is that the timber being shot is pushed onto the board by the movement of the blade, as opprosed to being lifted off the board with a declined board. Any angle on a shooting board will introduce skew to the cut, and any skew is good and noticeable I say, even if small.

Tis just my preference and others, (there are many I suspect) like the declined shooting board. All good, whatever gets you the results you are happy with.

I like the simple construction, well done. Nice Turner by the way. Thanks for the post.

Cheers
Pops

[Blue-deviled]

Simple really, I believe that the downward sloping boards are wrong, they leave the top plane of the work exposed to tear out as it is unsupported also with a steep downward angle there is more surface area to push the plane through therefore more work on my part.

By sloping the board up those planes on the work piece that are unsupported are under compression when cut, therefore less chance of tear out. Also by reducing the angle I still receive the skew effect but there is less surface area to push the plane through there is less friction and less work.

All up this way the board is more ergonomic that a downward sloping shooting board.

Just be careful that your plane blade is set, and sharpened absolutely square. Any curvature in the blade will translate to a less than square edge over that three degrees of ramp

[Phil Spencer]

Hi Phil,

I am with you on this one. I prefer a board with an upward incline, and believe also that this is the correct orientation for an inclined shooting board.

There are a number of reasons I prefer the inclined board as opposed to the declined board, (declining as you move forward). One reason is that the timber being shot is pushed onto the board by the movement of the blade, as opprosed to being lifted off the board with a declined board. Any angle on a shooting board will introduce skew to the cut, and any skew is good and noticeable I say, even if small.

Tis just my preference and others, (there are many I suspect) like the declined shooting board. All good, whatever gets you the results you are happy with.

I like the simple construction, well done. Nice Turner by the way. Thanks for the post.

Cheers
Pops

Glad you agree Pops, I picked the turner up outside Warnambool for $25.00 needed a little work on the adjuster screw.

Back to the Shooting Board, I was going to glue a coin in the back to show the year it was made but decided on a washer instead.

[mic-d]

Why angled? Three degrees is not really enough to indroduce some 'skew' to your cut, surely? Or are you waving this at the 'angled shooters'?

Sensible, stable choice of material!

cheers,
B-D

I too like your thoughts on the 'reverse' angle shooting board Phil and your no nonsense construction.

If you would indulge me, I would like to hijack the thread a little and answer B-D's query about introducing skew with a ramped board.

Although some 'experts' claim that the ramped board introduces a small 'skew' that makes planing easier, this is false, it is a myth and despite being eloquently discounted numerous times in far-flung regions, there are still people who are confused about it. It doesn't help that certain apparently premium reference sites have not modified their information even though this was sorted out a long time ago.

I would like to show some diagrams to clarify the case. First lets organise the frame of reference when we're planing or shooting so we are always looking from the same reference point. My point of reference will ALWAYS be from a plan view of the plane, that is, looking at the top of the plane.

If we consider the case of planing a board along the grain, the diagram would appear as in this image. The grey is the plane, the red is the edge of the blade and the brown is the work piece. The arrow indicates the direction of travel of the plane. You can see there is no skew because the direction of travel is 90º to the edge of the blade.
Attachment 190629
If we consider the case of skew planing a board along the grain, the diagram would appear as in this image. You can see there is a skew action because the direction of travel is at an angle other than 90º to the edge of the blade. Because the wood encounters the edge of the blade at an angle the apparent bed angle or bevel angle is reduced and planing feels easier.
Attachment 190630
Now if we change the orientation of the wood so that we are planing across the grain the situation would look like the image below. Again you can see there is no skew because the direction of travel is 90º to the edge of the blade.
Attachment 190631
SKEWING is a property SOLELY of the angle of the edge of the blade to the direction of travel and therefore resides SOLELY with the plane. NO change in the ORIENTATION OF THE BOARD, none whatsoever, can EVER introduce a skew cut.

So lets take a look at shooting. Using the same reference point as before, ie above the plane, the situation looks like the image below in the case of a standard shooting board. Since the direction of travel is 90º to the edge of the blade, there can be no skew cut. The diagram is virtually the same as the first image above, except that I shrunk the workpiece to make it look like an end of a board.
Attachment 190632
In the case of a ramped shooting board, the situation looks like the image below. The work piece orientation is changed (I exaggerated it here) because it now sits on an angled ramp. The direction of travel though is still 90º to the edge of the blade so there can be no skew cut. The situation is similar to the third image above where we changed the orientation of the board and planed across it (still no skew there either, remember).
Attachment 190633

So what is going on? Ramped shooting boards clearly offer an easier feel. It is not skew, it is the way the edge encounters the wood. In a standard shooting board, the edge of the blade encounters the entire width of the board at once, or nearly so. If you look at a graph (below) of the force the wood applies to the plane versus the position of the plane you will see that when the edge encounters the wood, there is an instantaneous increase on the force against the plane. This is felt as an uncomfortable 'knock' as the blade hits the wood.
Attachment 190634
In a ramped shooting board, the edge of the blade encounters just a corner of the board. If you look at a graph (below) of the force the wood applies to the plane versus the position of the plane you will see that when the edge encounters the wood, there is a gentle increase in the force on the plane as blade moves into the wood and the width of the contact between blade edge and board grows. The encounter feels more gentle than a standard board. That's it, that's the only reason a ramped board improves the experience. It has nothing to do with skew whatsoever.
Attachment 190635


If you would like another way of looking at this, I did it in the form of mental images in this blog. Again, apologies for the hijack Phil, but I thought it was important.

Cheers
Michael

[Blue-deviled]

Glad you agree Pops, I picked the turner up outside Warnambool for $25.00 needed a little work on the adjuster screw.

Back to the Shooting Board, I was going to glue a coin in the back to show the year it was made but decided on a washer instead.

You've got washers with their manufacture date on them? Wow!

[Phil Spencer]

You've got washers with their manufacture date on them? Wow!

Why waste good money! I had thought of building the shooting board out of Jarrah, then I considered why waste good wood on something that will wear and ply is flat and stable which is more important.

I get the washers from the Special Orders desk at Bunnies.

[Basilg]

Michael

I agree with what you have said in relation to the issue of skew.

However, I believe that the angling of the bed on a shooting board was intended to present a greater length of the blade cutting edge for a given thickness of wood. The benefit of this is that the blade remains sharper for longer & therefore less frequent sharpening. This is not something that I have yet tested so I can't vouch for the efficacy of the theory.

Regards

[mic-d]

Michael

I agree with what you have said in relation to the issue of skew.

However, I believe that the angling of the bed on a shooting board was intended to present a greater length of the blade cutting edge for a given thickness of wood. The benefit of this is that the blade remains sharper for longer & therefore less frequent sharpening. This is not something that I have yet tested so I can't vouch for the efficacy of the theory.

Regards

Hi Basilg, yes I've heard that too, I wonder if a board angled at 3-5º makes a practical difference in that regard?

Cheers
Michael

[Blue-deviled]

I too like your thoughts on the 'reverse' angle shooting board Phil and your no nonsense construction.

If you would indulge me, I would like to hijack the thread a little and answer B-D's query about introducing skew with a ramped board.

Although some 'experts' claim that the ramped board introduces a small 'skew' that makes planing easier, this is false, it is a myth and despite being eloquently discounted numerous times in far-flung regions, there are still people who are confused about it. It doesn't help that certain apparently premium reference sites have not modified their information even though this was sorted out a long time ago.

I would like to show some diagrams to clarify the case. First lets organise the frame of reference when we're planing or shooting so we are always looking from the same reference point. My point of reference will ALWAYS be from a plan view of the plane, that is, looking at the top of the plane.

If we consider the case of planing a board along the grain, the diagram would appear as in this image. The grey is the plane, the red is the edge of the blade and the brown is the work piece. The arrow indicates the direction of travel of the plane. You can see there is no skew because the direction of travel is 90º to the edge of the blade.
Attachment 190629
If we consider the case of skew planing a board along the grain, the diagram would appear as in this image. You can see there is a skew action because the direction of travel is at an angle other than 90º to the edge of the blade. Because the wood encounters the edge of the blade at an angle the apparent bed angle or bevel angle is reduced and planing feels easier.
Attachment 190630
Now if we change the orientation of the wood so that we are planing across the grain the situation would look like the image below. Again you can see there is no skew because the direction of travel is 90º to the edge of the blade.
Attachment 190631
SKEWING is a property SOLELY of the angle of the edge of the blade to the direction of travel and therefore resides SOLELY with the plane. NO change in the ORIENTATION OF THE BOARD, none whatsoever, can EVER introduce a skew cut.

So lets take a look at shooting. Using the same reference point as before, ie above the plane, the situation looks like the image below in the case of a standard shooting board. Since the direction of travel is 90º to the edge of the blade, there can be no skew cut. The diagram is virtually the same as the first image above, except that I shrunk the workpiece to make it look like an end of a board.
Attachment 190632
In the case of a ramped shooting board, the situation looks like the image below. The work piece orientation is changed (I exaggerated it here) because it now sits on an angled ramp. The direction of travel though is still 90º to the edge of the blade so there can be no skew cut. The situation is similar to the third image above where we changed the orientation of the board and planed across it (still no skew there either, remember).
Attachment 190633

So what is going on? Ramped shooting boards clearly offer an easier feel. It is not skew, it is the way the edge encounters the wood. In a standard shooting board, the edge of the blade encounters the entire width of the board at once, or nearly so. If you look at a graph (below) of the force the wood applies to the plane versus the position of the plane you will see that when the edge encounters the wood, there is an instantaneous increase on the force against the plane. This is felt as an uncomfortable 'knock' as the blade hits the wood.
Attachment 190634
In a ramped shooting board, the edge of the blade encounters just a corner of the board. If you look at a graph (below) of the force the wood applies to the plane versus the position of the plane you will see that when the edge encounters the wood, there is a gentle increase in the force on the plane as blade moves into the wood and the width of the contact between blade edge and board grows. The encounter feels more gentle than a standard board. That's it, that's the only reason a ramped board improves the experience. It has nothing to do with skew whatsoever.
Attachment 190635


If you would like another way of looking at this, I did it in the form of mental images in this blog. Again, apologies for the hijack Phil, but I thought it was important.

Cheers
Michael

Hey Michael,

The second graph should be a straight line too. The force required is a straight line relationship increasing rapidly from zero to maximum (and the reverse as you get to the end of the wood). Unless of course, the wood that is being shot has a curved profile...

With a 1" thick piece of wood, angled at three degrees, there would only be about one twentieth of an inch between the blade touching the leading corner, and fully engaging the timber. Maybe an adjustable ramp may suit those who feel strongly about this!

I'm all for a sharp blade, and as we're all strong wood-worker types, pushing the plane with vigour

cheers,
B-D

[mic-d]

Hey Michael,

The second graph should be a straight line too. The force required is a straight line relationship increasing rapidly from zero to maximum (and the reverse as you get to the end of the wood). Unless of course, the wood that is being shot has a curved profile...

With a 1" thick piece of wood, angled at three degrees, there would only be about one twentieth of an inch between the blade touching the leading corner, and fully engaging the timber. Maybe an adjustable ramp may suit those who feel strongly about this!

I'm all for a sharp blade, and as we're all strong wood-worker types, pushing the plane with vigour

cheers,
B-D

Yep, I thought it was a straight line too after thinking about it more. I couldn't be bothered changing it because it got the point across and then I didn't want to admit to myself how much time I would have wasted working out how to use grapher. I should have hand-drawn it!

Cheers
Michael

[Clinton1]

when all is said and done... least you won't be planing skewiff.

[derekcohen]

Here is an article I wrote on the topic ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furnitu...sCompared.html

And for anyone building a shooting board, or wanting to improve their existing one, this modification is simple but imparts a huge improvement ..

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ShopMad...tingBoard.html

Regards from Perth

Derek