Thread: Well?

I have quite a few power tools. Actually, rather a lot, about 15 of which are Festo/ols. Some are over 30 years old, and still going strong. In fact, in many cases the older ones seem to be of superior quality and design than their more recent contemporaries.

However, of the new tools being offered these days, Festools are nearly the best available, in terms of performance, design and (hopefully) longevity. I say nearly because I believe that (a) some manufacturers do it better, and (b) not all Festool products are actually superior to the competition.

Generally speaking, Festool sanders are the best available, especially the Rotex. There have been problems with seals in the drive mechanism that Festo have addressed in their latest model. While not the heaviest duty available (Mafell and Kress), the compact size, light weight, balance, lack of vibration, superior dust extraction and sheer versatility makes the latest model superior to the abovementioned pair and the other dual action machines from Bosch and Makita. Metabo makes a "dual orbit" model that really doesn't cut it in this company.

Their orbitals are renowned for their balance, low vibration and longevity. Their "linear" Duplex sander is however, not in the same league. It's slow, vibratory (despite counterbalancers) and prone to clogging the papers all too easily. I have 2, so I'm not speaking without reason here. My Deltex is, well, a delta sander. No better or worse than my significantly less expensive but still current model 20 year old Bosch Blue. I've heard good things about their 105mm belt sander, but it's twice the price of the competitors. My 75mm. version is perhaps a bit better than my 25 year old Bosch. But remember that these sanders are actually "badge engineered" versions of a 25-30 year old Holz-Her design.

Their plunge saws are excellent, in fact almost as good as Mafell's equivalents. The track systems from both these manufacturers are compatible, and ensure amazingly accurate results, and astonishingly effective dust collection. However, other manufacturers are now producing more cost effective plunge saws with compatible tracks: Makita, Metabo, DeWalt.

By contrast, however, Festool's Trion Jigsaw is a big disappointment. The biggest problem is that it takes much too damn long to adjust: you need the allen key to adjust the base, and also to adjust the stupid, fiddly damn blade guides each and every time you change blades. Be warned, if the adjustment isn't made you will end up with a wobbly cut (from having the blade roller mounted way too high) or a burnt blade without any temper or sharpness from having insufficient play on each side of the blade. I think that my Festool jigsaw is without a doubt the worst power tool that it has ever been my (dis)pleasure to own. Both Mafell and Bosch produce a far superior product that have simple, intuitive adjustments that reward the user with consistent accuracy and a long life.

I'm also less than impressed with Festool's cordless designs. They're beautifully compact and lightweight. But so is everyone else's product these days. The have very effective battery technology, using high quality third party battery technology (just like their competitors), and high quality chucks (ditto). I've had a couple of their drills in the past, but have found that battery life (both between charges and overall) to be limited, and that the drills, while very torquey, are just too damned slow, even in top gear, to be effective drillers with small bits. In my opinion, Festools drills are just a bit ordinary and dated in comparison to their cheaper competitors. Cordless technology is evolving more rapidly than other tools, and I feel that they're being left behind. My current favourite drill is the Bosch 18V combination drill/impact driver which seems to tick all the right boxes: speed, grunt, lightweight and battery life. At least until the next new whizzbang model comes along.

Which brings me finally to their Vacs. I have 2: an SR5E that's seen 20 years of use, misuse and abuse. Just like Grandpa's axe, its had a new motor, new hoses, longlife filters and reuseable bags. But....apart from the motor, it's performed flawlessly for the past 25 years, and still does so as effectively as when it was new. My CT22 has likewise never skipped a beat, but only for a fifth of that time. By contrast, the CT seems a little less robust than the older vac, but so far nothing has fallen off or broken. Touch wood. My only possible criticism of the machines is the B/S price of consumables. Quite shameful really. I recommend reuseable filter bags.

I apologise for this ludicrously long post, but you did ask a valid question that needed a detailed (and lengthy) response.

I have no affiliation whatsoever with any retail, trade or manufacturing organisation, nor have ever been provided with any incentive to favour one product over another. The opinions expressed above are mine alone and based on 40 odd years (in)experience as an (un)professional user.

I can hear the hounds baying already.

No 'baying hound' here Mate. Thanks for the in depth and logical report - some very interesting comments. A pity I didn't wait a couple of days before buying my jig-saw, I may have had different thoughts.

soth

Yae RATBAG Thanks for an excellent writeup A greenie for you

Woof woof. Nah not really, nice report of your own Festool experiences.

Well, I'm glad about the Rotex because that is the only tool I really need at the moment.

I am interested in your remarks about the drills. Something about them struck me and I re-looked at a couple of videos. Yes They are slow!

Also beginning to see what the Domino is/can be all about.

What about planers? Does anyone have any thoughts o them??

I am beginning to appreciate the Rotex more and more. I have previously used the orbital sanders that fit into one hand as I like the feel and control , and I also bought the ETS-125 for that reason.
However the speed at which the Rotex is capable of finishing a piece of timber has me reaching for it just about every time these days. And with the finer grits on orbital motion, it is an easy one handed affair with surprisingly little vibration.

In terms of drills I too thought Festool was lagging behind the better competition. I settled on a Panasonic 21.6v Hammer Drill EY7960 LN2S. It has tremendous power and speed with a pair of very long lasting Lithium Ion batteries (3AH)

Originally Posted by artme

I am interested in your remarks about the drills. Something about them struck me and I re-looked at a couple of videos. Yes They are slow!

The Festool drills run at about 1500rpm. Maybe look into the Protool drills which run at speeds up to 3600 rpm. Scary fast sometimes. They have the same EC-TEC brushless motor and other shared components as the Festool drills.

Artme, I only have the bigger 850w Festool planer: an older version with the control electronics but without the brake. It's a good planer, in fact a very effective BENCH planer. It's a very clever and intuitively designed tool esp. considering it's a 20 year old design, as is most Festool gear.

But, man oh man, is it ever big! That's why I regard it as a bench planer, where those clever features like the unlimited rebating and twristgrip depth control are most effective. But I'd personally never take it on site. Too big, too heavy (and consequently too dangerous) to do the silly things you do with planers onsite, like planing vertical surfaces or using it above waist height.

I have 3 others that work better in these roles, a very old Elu, a lightweight 900w Metabo, and my favourite, an old 102mm. wide AEG. Other than the latter, the others are as often as not a bit too narrow for smoothing studs etc. I don't think AEG make this tool anymore, which is a pity as it has a fantastic safety device unseen elsewhere: an automatically closing cutterhead guard. Luckily, there's enough of these tools floating around for brushes, belts and Carbide blade inserts to be available from flea-bay.

The baby Festool feels like a lovely little tool, but perhaps, as a one handed tool, better suited to interior work. Kitchen fitters, among others, sing its praises.

Thanks Ratbag.. Valuable information.

Given that the drills would be expected to be used for woodworking purposes, why is the high speed needed?

1500rpm is fine for all brad point bits. It is also more than adequate for all Forstner bits in hardwood, a bit faster (2400rpm) would be good for small Forstners in softwood.

For those using twist bits any bit below 1/4" in hardwood or 7/16" in softwood would benefit from 3000rpm.

Hole saws, multi spurs, spade bits, spades with spurs, Powerbore bits, Circle cutters, countersinks, polishing wheels, flex discs, drum sanders, plug cutters, taper drills etc all require less than 1500rpm.

For reference see here.

Originally Posted by Groggy

Given that the drills would be expected to be used for woodworking purposes, why is the high speed needed?

1500rpm is fine for all brad point bits. It is also more than adequate for all Forstner bits in hardwood, a bit faster (2400rpm) would be good for small Forstners in softwood.

For those using twist bits any bit below 1/4" in hardwood or 7/16" in softwood would benefit from 3000rpm.

Hole saws, multi spurs, spade bits, spades with spurs, Powerbore bits, Circle cutters, countersinks, polishing wheels, flex discs, drum sanders, plug cutters, taper drills etc all require less than 1500rpm.

For reference see here.

Actually, that is probably why Festool have made the drills they way they have, and why they do not have a hammer action. But some people, (like me) want to use drills for drilling holes into wood, masonry and metal. I guess it just means that if I bought a Festool drill, I would need to buy an extra one for other purposes, or put up with the occasional limitations in non-timber applications.

Thanks for the handy reference

Originally Posted by TP1

Actually, that is probably why Festool have made the drills they way they have, and why they do not have a hammer action. But some people, (like me) want to use drills for drilling holes into wood, masonry and metal. I guess it just means that if I bought a Festool drill, I would need to buy an extra one for other purposes, or put up with the occasional limitations in non-timber applications.

Thanks for the handy reference

The Protool PDC 18-4 TEC LI battery drill is one the I bought recently to cater for all the things TP1 has just mentioned particularly ouside of the shed and for those masonry jobs as has been stated.

Plenty of grunt admittedly has'nt beeen tested over a protracted period yet its a step up from the Festool range ...well I reckon it is so far!

Cheers

I bought the Protool PDC 18-4 TEC LI , I think one of the best cordless drills around.

http://www.protool.com.au/images/Aus...paign1_AUS.pdf

I don't intend to start an unrelated argument, but I'm just so imrlessed with my little Bosch multifunction drill.

Having an impact driver and fast 2-speed drill all rolled into one compact tool is a revelation. It's only vice to date is the lack of a conventional chuck. I changed over years ago to the snappy range of hex colletted drills, (imperial measurements) means inexpensive and quick replacement of drill bits from my local hardware store. The only changeover required was for my auger bits to hex drive.

Having a 2600 RPM top speed is just the ticket for setting self drillers into steel purlins, and the impact drive mechanism is the icing on the cake. Makita tried to produce a (4 mode!!) impact/2 speed/hammer version some time ago. It was hopeless! Really hard to change between modes, and gutless to boot. The hammer and impact modes were OK, but the drilling torque (even in low gear) was so pathetic that it couldn't even drive a speedbore, let alone an auger, without ratchetting to a standstill.

I tried the Centrotec system some time ago. My Festool 14.4v was so equipped, but found the price and relative unavailability (country Tasmania) of consumables unproductive. By contrast, 1/4" hex stuff can be found anywhere, and colleted hex drills enables broken drill changeover rapidly and cheaply.