Thread: BS44 Horizontal Bandsaw--is it any good?

Originally Posted by Briangoldcoast

Hi everyone,
I'm thinking of buying a BS44 horizontal bandsaw from H & F to cut stock to feed my new AL250G lathe.
Will the bandsaw handle 100 X 25 black bar stock and 50mm diameter black stock.
Speed is not as important as a square cut.
What sort of life can I expect from a blade?
Any other comments please.
I will be grateful for any comments both positive and negative.
Thanks in anticipation--Brian

Brian, I have a 6x5" bandsaw from h&F and I like it a lot. They are fiddly to setup but are capable of square cuts. For the money, these are awesome tools, much better than a cutoff wheel. They are quite economical on blades but I have gone through a lot. H&F wanted me to bring the saw in once to get their tech to check it out cos I was buying so many blades from them. If the blade guides are too tight, they will snap as they get work hardened and brittle. In my case, I would run it all day before a $10 blade broke which I thought was OK, much cheaper than a cutoff saw! Then i started to get stuff laser cut. One advantage is you can be doing something else when it is cutting away but don't leave unattended. I have cut a lot of 100x8 and 100x10 and have done 50x25x6 angle and it will handle anything you can fit in the jaws but it takes time.

Originally Posted by rodweb

I have cut a lot of 100x8 and 100x10 and have done 50x25x6 angle and it will handle anything you can fit in the jaws but it takes time.

Don't try cutting 100mm OD 316 unless you have a new blade and a great deal of time you can spend on other projects while you wait.

Like, all day....

Other than that, they work. Buy decent blades. Get the model where the cutting head swivels. Bit of extra money but a lot less annoyance every time you want to set up for mitre cuts. I've got both models, guess which one I'd part with...

PDW

Thanks Rod and PDW.
I appreciate both of your wisdom.
Befoer I get too excited and impulse buy I should finish the lathe stand and clean out a spot for it, and then look for a spot for the saw before I go any further.
We all know that i will be lining up for one before the year is out.
PS I bought a handful of cut off discs from bunnings on the way hime)
regards Brian

This is probably not exactly what you were looking for but good information never the less.

There is a bit more in the blade "science" if you want to call it that,than meets the eye.
There's more to just selecting a blade that is wide enough to fit the driver wheel.

The type of material cut, the section of the material cut, the tooth pitch , rake, set, run in of the blade and coolant all have an effect on the longevity of the bandsaw blade.

Running in the blade
Blades are very sharp when manufactured. If your new blade is not run in at a reduced feed and speed from that of normal,the sharp pints are torn off and badly reduces cutting efficiency from then on in.

The type of metal cut
If you have the one type of steel to cut that is great but most of us probably don't. Stainless steel will work harden if cutting speed and feeds aren't right. If your bandsaw is a single speed or just a couple of speeds, then that might present present a real problem when you have been cutting steel and then need to cut a chunk of stainless.Bi metal blades help overcome this.

The section of the metal being cut.
A big lump of flat bar should be cut width vertical not width horizontal, as would a heavy angle section should be placed heel uppermost. Multiple cuts in a flat bar in horizontal section kills the blade in relatively few cuts.

Hook rake and tooth pitch are relative to thickness of material cut and material cut.Its a matter of selecting that information from data made available by the blade manufacturers.

Coolant
Not only does coolant keep the temperature down but also flushes cutting chips away.

Cutting chips
The shape of cutting chips if formed like an e in cursive writing indicate a good blade efficiency.

I have learned all this as my employer purchased a fair sized bandsaw to cut up butt welds and tee pieces for macro etch weld testing. The info may help any body with a bandsaw. Ok it applies to industrial cutting with a 27mm blade but hopefully just a bit of it may help someone at home.

Grahame

Hi Grahame,

That's a good bit of info for us new comers to the bandsaw world. As my bandsaw project (hopefully) comes to a close, I have started looking at new blades. It came with surprise and a little disappointment when I learnt that I cant go out and simply purchase one blade for all my intended uses. Looking at the available charts from manufacturers, the mug user like me is forced to decide on what range of cross sectional area I am going to cut, what material and if cutting hollow section, then the wall thickness and size of tube!

It's not like I can afford two or three blades! So, it's all a compromise, as it seems with everything. We need to purchase a blade that will suite the majority of our intended cuts. It seems that a variable pitch in a Bimetal blade is most likely the best choice. If we need to deviate a fair bit from the optimum that the blade was intended then I guess we need to err on caution with both feed and perhaps speed and if coolant is available then lots of it?

PS even if I did buy 2 blades at $70 each (for my saw) then I would still be miles ahead considering the dozens of cutoff blades I have bought for my cutoff saw at $12 each over the years and no noise or sparks!

Cheers,

Simon

Simon, for what it is worth and I am only play with a baby bandsaw that only costs $10 to feed a blade to, I have three blades available for purchase. I have never used the finest blade which they say is for thin walled tube but I do hold some weight of the cut on the thin walled ally tube I cut sometimes.

But yes, I use the coarse blade for plastic (I cut heaps) and aluminium. It is quicker to change to the right blade than to persevere with the wrong balde in my experience!

I just have got in the habit of having a couple of spare blades on hand. I found after cutting 8m lengths of 50x50 SHS into 55mm lengths, that I would break a blade a day!

I certainly agree, it is still a lot cheaper to feed than a cut off wheel that I never bought thankfully! I think I am getting better life out of blades now that I have some experience with setup and aligning the thing.

I don't think it makes much difference if you use lubricant but I generally do add a drop or two. I don't think flood coolant is necessary as the teeth are not working for long and have a few seconds to cool down as they go round for the next attack.

Thanks Rod for the info and advice from another with obviously much experience in the use of these things. On thing that I'm interested in, much has been said about the "setting up" of these things. Given that there is not a lot to them, I assume that setting up means two things:

(1) Correct blade tension, which I'm yet to work out how you judge that you have done this
(2) Correct adjustment of the guides to produce a square cut.

Is this correct?

Simon

Originally Posted by simonl

It's not like I can afford two or three blades!

Better not ever buy a vertical bandsaw, then.

I have at least a dozen blades of various widths and tooth pitch, each blade 3600mm long.

Got to have the right blade for the job, or at least close.

PDW

Brian,
have a BS-5 band-saw.
surprised and happy with the little bugger even though i expected it to be a piece of crap.

on average it could do about 10-12 cuts of 70mm solid round steel bar before the H&F blade either broke or had worn out.
takes about 13 minutes for a 70mm diameter bar, about 20-22mins cutting a 100mm bar and longer as the blades wears out.

never bothered getting anal and changing blades or speed for hollow or solid, found that using the 18 TPI blade set on the middle speed 29 M/min works well for both, the 14 TPI blade had a much shorter life.
found that the blade lasts longer when cutting with less pressure, it takes longer, though personally cost is more important as its only used for a hobby.
the cutting chips look more like iron fillings.

have cut aluminum "using the same blade" which blocked up the blade and caused a diagonal cut " top - bottom" when cutting steel, probably caused due to one side of the blade being clogged up with ally.
couldn't see the point of purchasing a blade for ally, as i don't use much ally and changing blades e.t.c just for a few cuts wasn't worth the trouble.
ended up applying beeswax intermittently on the teeth while cutting ally which works well, easier compared to changing blades.

considered coolant, though couldn't see the point as the blade life was fine and just squirt some oil at times when cutting large diameter bar.

works out way cheaper compared to using grinding discs, and keeps the neighbors happy.

I think squirting a little coolant in is about the worst thing you can do......
It seems to me that all it does is cause the chips to stick to the blade and in the cut. Best to either flush them right away with flood coolant or use no coolant at all and let them just fall off the blade.
I mostly cut solid, i am use 10/14 (or is it 12/14?) tpi bi-metal blades. I cut some 80mm solid today, took about 16-17 min, seems about in line with what lather said.
Cheers,
Ew

Originally Posted by simonl

Thanks Rod for the info and advice from another with obviously much experience in the use of these things. On thing that I'm interested in, much has been said about the "setting up" of these things. Given that there is not a lot to them, I assume that setting up means two things:

(1) Correct blade tension, which I'm yet to work out how you judge that you have done this
(2) Correct adjustment of the guides to produce a square cut.

Is this correct?

Simon

Simon, blade tension is as tight as you can make it by hand. I read somewhere that someone had the specs and checked it and found that he could not tighten the blade enough to meet the spec. I made mine tighter after that.

Yes, the guides need to be adjusted but before you can do that you need to align the wheels so the blade tracks straight and does not fall off.

You need a set square that has one leg small enough to fit between the guides on the exposed blade so you can square the back guide to the blade but also then make sure the blade is square vertically. This is the hard bit as the blade is thin and rough at the bottom so using a 300mm steel ruler helps but final setup is by trial cuts.

There is also a 6x4 bandsaw group on Yahoo that is active, has some good setup documents and will help if you ask. It is worth subscribing for a while.

Just an aside on these bandsaws.

i did up a DXF file to get this plate laser cut out of 5mm plate. We did 2 of these, one for r my 6x5 for a mate, with the 6x4.



To replace the factory pressed metal saw table.



This will fit the H&F 6x4 and the 6x5. The slot on the 6x4 factory one points the opposite direction to this but the bolt holes are in the same place so it still works no problem at all.

If you can afford to be a little bit patient and wait for me to order my next batch of laser cutting in July, I could get a few of these cut. These are very stable and streets ahead of the OEM tin one. If you are interested, send me a PM. They will work out under $20 each, depending on numbers.