Thread: No luck removing chuck

As far as I can tell, the hub is in one piece

you can see the register in the drive dog plate

PICS

Hi Mike,
Its amazing what some sleep will do, as soon as I saw the pictures again this morning I realised I'd put my foot in it.
Of course there are two pieces, you've already take one off.

The ends of the grooves I was talking about.
https://www.woodworkforums.com/attach...chuck-hub1.jpg

So forgot everything I said.

Stuart

Assuming that the way you think this is all held together is the case and that the outer slotted nut is actually the backing plate and not a secondary retention nut or a nut for a long taper spindle mount.Have you thought why the drive plate doesent use the same system.

It looks from your photos that the threaded section of the drive plate is not as long as the slotted section (bit hard to tell as no sizes/lengths have been mentioned).

By looking at the drive plate it appears to be a standard type configuration with thread, undercut and registration face for drive plate to register on the end of the spindle.

It may just be the way the drive plate is orientated but the thread in the drive plate dosent appear to be the same diameter at the end of the spindle.

Seeing that these lathes used 3 types of spindle nose have you been able to determine which of the threaded type it is or have you only worked on the drive plate thread being the type that the spindle has.

If by some chance the length of the drive plate is not the same length as the slotted nut I dont think you would be able to use it as it would need to register on a shoulder on the spindle.Not to say that the shoulder on the spindle could be set well ahead of the end of the spindle where it comes through the headstock,but if this is the case it is a very strange setup.Possably if the threaded length of the slotted nut is well undercut at the spindle face it could be the same,just seems strange that you may have a register face so far from the end of the spindle.

Get some play dough or similar even silicon and creat a dam around the edge of the spindle face and start soaking in some kero or WD 40 by filling the lower part of the dam and then when it has gone turn the spindle around a few degrees and do it again untill you have soaked all around the thread by then you should have the gear to try unlocking it. It will stink a bit when you apply heat but it may soften the rust a bit . From the looks of the C spanner some previous owner has tried and failed . The surface gripping area of that diameter and length of thread is substantial when rust is involved .
Who knows what some previous owner may have done , loktited it , epoxied?
Don't laugh old machines can have all sorts of queer things wrong with them.
I have seen two men swing of an 8 foot cheater bar to unlock a much shorter and smaller diameter thread that was rusted in . This could take more force to move than one man can apply even with a big cheater bar .

Building a dam and using some penetrating oil sounds like a very good idea. However I wouldn't waste my time with WD-40. I think there are better alternatives in this area.

I agree, some idiot may have put Loctite on it to stop it coming off. I'd try a few heat cycles including heating the spindle.

Pete

In regards to when you tried to undo this fitting from your spindle nose with the chuck still fitted.

Did you place something across the chuck jaws to stop the cuck from spinning?

Did you place your C spanner on the slotted nut with the handle of the C spanner at the rear of the lathe and give it a good hit?

Just another question for thought,why wouldnt the Drive plate use the same system to retain it on the spindle?

Well

I've tried this bar , I welded up a plate that is bolted to the hub .The iron bar has some spring in it , which isnt good .

I jammed a piece of copper plate between 2 gears but :

I have found a nice method of forming copper into a gear tooth shape !

I heated it up and used liberal amounts of oil , I squirted oil inside the hub, down the 3 holes . The oil got hot and ran thin into every crevace .

This bugger is STUCK . I think GMH sold it cos they couldn't get the chuck off it

I might have to destroy the hub , to get it off . drill holes around the spindle and weaken the grip

MIKE

Mike I'm afraid I don't agree with some others here in applying a static load and trying to lever the plate off. What you need to do is BREAK the bond between the threads, and impacts are the only way that is going to happen. You need to get everything as rigid as possible, no spring, and belt the living %^&* out of it with the best you've got. If anything is yielding (ie springy) you'll be there all year, and I feel completely wasting your time with static loads.

As a matter of interest, look at the end of the threads and see if you can see any evidence of Loctite. You may have to look really carefully, but I've found normally you can see it. If so, then you need to get the plate REAL hot to break the Loctite bond, and you'll probably need oxy for that.

If that still doesn't work, I think you're down to actually taking the plate off destructively. Edit: oh sorry I missed your last sentence where you said just that (as everyone knows, men can't multi-task and I'm in the middle of other work). Yeah that's how I would do it if it wasn't a lathe, but an alternative is to simply turn the whole thing off, much less change of a wandering drill nicking the spindle.

Pete

Yes OK Pete

I am going to try my original idea . That is, to make a special socket , to slide onto the gear , on the spindle end . The socket will be 90mm internal diameter ( same as the gear outside diam.) I will then cut 4 , 6 , or 8 slots around the circumference , the slots will line up with teeth in the gear . I will weld in teeth , into the slots .

I can then slide the socket onto the spindle gear . It will lock the spindle .

On the end of the socket I will weld/bolt a bar that will engage with something and prevent the spindle from turning

Yes I agree, it must be rigid , any spring is a no no. With the home made socket locking the Spindle , I can then wack the other end ( chuck end ) with a heavy hammer .

I havent given up yet

Hi Mike,
great set up but you havent put the c spanner on and tried to undo it like undoing a couple of lock nuts. The c spanner can rest on the wooden block you have on the bed.

Phil

Mike you said you "squirted oil" in the 3 holes, do you mean the 3 holes in the front face? Surely they don't go down as far as the spindle thread?

With penetrating oil, you do need to be patient with it. If you don't get this off tonight, I would recommend taking a quick trip down to the local servo (assuming you don't already have some) and grabbing a small bottle of ATF. Mix up 50% ATF and 50% acetone, build a dam as suggested above and leave it to soak in overnight. This is where it's a shame it's a horizontal lathe spindle, as it would be better if you could get it vertical, dam it and leave for a couple of days for the "brew" to seep through the thread. Anyway, you don't have that luxury, so just do the best you can. Put a plastic container under the "dam" though as the ATF will probably damage the paint.

From what I've seen of some people, they seem to think penetrating oils are some form of magic wand, and if they wave a bit of it in the general area, say a few swear words, and wait 30 seconds the part will magically fall off in their lap! While I don't disagree with the swearing, and can thoroughly recommend that technique, in fact the penetrant takes quite a while to seep in. All this is supposing it IS just rust of course. If thread locker has been used all bets are off, the acetone MAY help, but it won't get in to do its job.

Pete

HI Mike,
If you like I could pop down on the weekend and give you a hand.

Phil

Originally Posted by morrisman

I am going to try my original idea . That is, to make a special socket , to slide onto the gear , on the spindle end . The socket will be 90mm internal diameter ( same as the gear outside diam.) I will then cut 4 , 6 , or 8 slots around the circumference , the slots will line up with teeth in the gear . I will weld in teeth , into the slots .

The problem with that is, if you don't get all your teeth spaced precisely, all the load will be on one or two. In that case I would fear for the safety of the gear. I would do it only as a last resort. First I would simply bore a chunk of ally (soft) to the OD of the gear, split it and bolt a lever to that. That will spread the load a lot more.

PS: IMO you're lucky you got away with that copper stunt.

Originally Posted by Bryan

The problem with that is, if you don't get all your teeth spaced precisely, all the load will be on one or two. In that case I would fear for the safety of the gear. I would do it only as a last resort. First I would simply bore a chunk of ally (soft) to the OD of the gear, split it and bolt a lever to that. That will spread the load a lot more.

PS: IMO you're lucky you got away with that copper stunt.

X2 there. I am no expert on chuck removal to be sure, but as Bryan has said, for the safety of the gear, just bore some aluminium to the size of the gear, or maybe even a few thous smaller, split it and bore through the edges so you can clamp the 2 halves around the gear, and ten fit a handle with which you can restrain movement of the gear.
As for Petes suggestion of using an ATF and acetone mix, I have read where that mixture was supposed to out perform any commercial penetrant / rust loosener, but I have also read where the ATF which mixed with acetone must have been very old, - sometime around WW2, because from around that time ATF was reformulated and will not now mix with acetone. The same article went on to say that ATF would dissolve in Trichlorethylene. Trike however is now recognised as a known carcinogen, amongst other less desirable qualities, and even if you are able to source some, you would need to take adequate measures to safeguard yourself and anyone else in the vicinity from contact with it. I have an idea, that it is not just breathing protection that is required, but IIRC it can even penetrate the skin and enter the body that way.
That is what I have read, and I have no way of verifying it one way or the other, hopefully others on the forum will chip in with better qualified info. Good luck with it, and congratulations on being appointed custodian of your Hendy. Regards,
Rob