Thread: Mini Lathe

As most will probably say it depends on what you wish to do with it.

For the price you have estimated you could by a similar lathe only and a 2nd hand mill/drill.

The tooling that you currently have for your lathe should be usable,so that cost shouldn't really be a concern.

Tooling for the milling side of the combination lathe would be quite more than what you have now.

The mill tooling required for a combination machine would not be very different to a dedicated mill/drill if any difference at all.

You would find that certain types of tooling may be dearer than the combination machine but only marginally.more so the vice that you would use,cutters and associated tooling should virtually be the same.

The rigidity of the combination machine could be an issue depending on what you wish to do as compared to a stand alone mill/drill.

Hi Greg,
If your going to spend that sort of money and can fit it I would suggest a 300 x 900mm lathe. It will be something you will never need to upgrade in the future for a home shop, so a big saving in the long run.

I had a Hercus for 15 or so years and the step up to this size lathe was great with power long and cross feed, large spindle bore (38mm) easy inch and metric threads, easy to change speeds, etc. They are also a lot more rigid than the smaller lathes.
Having the imperial lead screw is a bonus in my eyes as you just leave the half nuts engaged all the time when doing metric threads and reverse the lathe, then just use the thread dial for imperial if you want to.
With a metric screw you need a handful of thread dial gears to do all the pitches in metric.

They are around 1600mm long and 500mm deep and weigh around 400kg. A engine hoist will have it unloaded and in position easy, or you can make up some wheels on a piece of angle like I posted here a while back to move it into position or around in the shed (you will need to level it to use it).

Dave

I'm inclined to agree with DaveJ. Would be hard to go past a used Hercus 260ATM, they are well made and a good one will only set you back around $1500.

You could start by contacting forum member Mal (Allterrain50)

http://www.australianmetalworkinghobbyist.com/store/ or [email protected]

http://australianmetalworkinghobbyist.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&path=46&product_id=196 for a 260 CTM.

Quite a few also turn up on eBay, however I'd buy from Mal first, I know he's a good, honest, bloke.

Ken

Originally Posted by pipeclay

As most will probably say it depends on what you wish to do with it.


For the price you have estimated you could by a similar lathe only and a 2nd hand mill/drill.

Ta mate ... Hadn't exactly thought of that option and I only have a small shed. But I could part with the Sieg C3 and free up space.

I am by no means an expert on a lathe.

Dave And Ken ... Thank you .. I checked Mal's shop. Its a bit hard to navigate, but the CTM looks great. Did not know I could get such a quality machine for the money.

I will give him a call after easter .. 200kg to brizzy mite be expensive.

If this option works out any further ideas on a 'small footprint' miller, good quality of course ... Haahaa (I know I tend to want the impossible)

cheers guys ... Greg

Actually looks like a milling attachment is available for this lathe. This could suit all my modest needs with no further expense or bigger footprint in the box (shed)

greg

Originally Posted by Mutawintji

Would it be a significant improvement over the C3 in quality and construction, or just the same with more options for the xtra price ?


Greg

It looks to have a reverse tumbler - which the C3 does not.
It looks to have a quick change gearbox - which the C3 (or any Sieg for that matter) does not.

So it's immediately better IMHO.

BUT I tend to agree with Pipeclay on this.

I don't see the point of these combination mill/lathe setups.

For the money I think you can do a lot better.

Rob

Originally Posted by nearnexus

For the money I think you can do a lot better.

Rob

Thanx for all this advice ...

So to condense a 300mm swing, 900mm bed (Dave) which the the Hercus 260 approx meets ($1350) (Ken) and a separate Miller with the remaining money (Rob an Pipeclay)

So is it possible to buy a miller for around 1K ?

Pipeclay, what I want to use it for is scale modelling. Thr SiegC3 and a drill press would meet these needs but are taking things to the limits ... So I thought slightly bigger lathe an mill/drill would make life easier.

greg

Originally Posted by Mutawintji

Thanx for all this advice ...


So is it possible to buy a miller for around 1K ?


greg

The issue is that the mill on that lathe will be pretty wimpy, both in size, how it's mounted, and table travel.

That's why if you are going to go mill, you need something more substantial.

It's a compromise.

Rob

Hi Peoples ..

Thanx to all those who answered here ... mush appreciated.

The reason I haven't got back here is that the more information I got ... the further I pursued it .... the deeper in I fell. I reached a point where I realised that I knew almost nothing at all, and before purchasing I would have educate myself on some basics.

This thread made me question my own purposes for a lathe/mill ...

SO ... I have re-evaluated (objectively I hope) my reasons and needs. As I said earlier the Sieg C3 actually is suitable for my purposes in size and scope ... but a bit unreliable ... probably too strong a word ... more that many adjustments have to be made for finer accuracy. But otherwise it works for my needs.

By going bigger I thought I would improve accuracy. Not necessarily so ... maybe just bigger inaccuracies and less shed space to store them ... haaaa

In any case, thru paths too difficult to trace back I ended up looking at this package ..... HERE

Now I know it ain't the big macho lathe or mill that you can show to your poor ill informed friends and relatives and impress the hell out of them with your vast superior technical skills. And this is something I would LOVE doing ...... but to be honest I think this is more suitable for my needs .. modest .. unassuming ... and APPARENTLY very very accurate ...
and a mill head that moves in 8 separate directions is somehow desirable without really knowing why or wot to do with it ... (so funny)

I would really appreciate if anybody knows about this .. good or bad ... I would really like some input from them..

I am in no rush to purchase and am letting this idea simmer in my liddle brain for a while.

I also have been watching this video (tryin to educate myself) and I have a question/s that maybe someone here can answer ... perhaps its been asked before. At one point this guy is 'scraping' and then later he is 'flaking'

My question/s:

What is the difference between 'scraping' and 'flaking' ?

Is the guy using the same Biax machine with different inserts ?

Or are different machines used for these two 'different' operations ?

I apologise if these have been asked before .. I did a search .. nil .. but if so .. could you point me to the link ...

much appreciated for any help ... Greg

Originally Posted by Mutawintji

Hi Peoples ..

Thanx to all those who answered here ... mush appreciated.

The reason I haven't got back here is that the more information I got ... the further I pursued it .... the deeper in I fell. I reached a point where I realised that I knew almost nothing at all, and before purchasing I would have educate myself on some basics.

This thread made me question my own purposes for a lathe/mill ...

SO ... I have re-evaluated (objectively I hope) my reasons and needs. As I said earlier the Sieg C3 actually is suitable for my purposes in size and scope ... but a bit unreliable ... probably too strong a word ... more that many adjustments have to be made for finer accuracy. But otherwise it works for my needs.

By going bigger I thought I would improve accuracy. Not necessarily so ... maybe just bigger inaccuracies and less shed space to store them ... haaaa

In any case, thru paths too difficult to trace back I ended up looking at this package ..... HERE

Now I know it ain't the big macho lathe or mill that you can show to your poor ill informed friends and relatives and impress the hell out of them with your vast superior technical skills. And this is something I would LOVE doing ...... but to be honest I think this is more suitable for my needs .. modest .. unassuming ... and APPARENTLY very very accurate ...
and a mill head that moves in 8 separate directions is somehow desirable without really knowing why or wot to do with it ... (so funny)

I would really appreciate if anybody knows about this .. good or bad ... I would really like some input from them..

I am in no rush to purchase and am letting this idea simmer in my liddle brain for a while.

I also have been watching this video (tryin to educate myself) and I have a question/s that maybe someone here can answer ... perhaps its been asked before. At one point this guy is 'scraping' and then later he is 'flaking'

My question/s:

What is the difference between 'scraping' and 'flaking' ?

Is the guy using the same Biax machine with different inserts ?

Or are different machines used for these two 'different' operations ?

I apologise if these have been asked before .. I did a search .. nil .. but if so .. could you point me to the link ...

much appreciated for any help ... Greg

A Sherline is a feeble toy. Don't do it. Nice machines, but feeble. Tiny work envelope.

Rule of thumb - do not buy *any* multipurpose machine in the hobbyist class. They will do nothing excellently and few things adequately.

Milling attachments on lathes, with a few exceptions like Emco Maximats, are flexible, feeble contraptions that are a waste of time and money.

Get 2 machines, a lathe and a mill. If you don't do this now, you *will* later - or abandon machining out of utter frustration. The resale value of those multifunction machines tends to be poor.

Before you do *anything* else, sit down and decide on the maximum dimensions of what you want to machine, and what materials you're going to machine. These determine machine choice. Budget determines new or a possibly long hunt for good used machinery.

With a mill, space in Z axis tends to disappear fast. Add a rotary table, clamps and your chunk of metal to the table, see what's left. Collet chuck or drill chuck - do you actually have enough space to do anything?

PDW

Have you considered something like the H&F AL50 and AL60 Or Titans TL250 and buying a small separate mill like that advertised on ebay for around $800. The only one I have experience with is the AL50 (currently own), it is an excellent machine, very robust and capable of extremely accurate turning. Titan sell a variable speed copy of the AL50. Once again it does depend on what you will use it for, if your making small models, etc, an AL330 would be next to useless, but if your contemplating making larger items then the lathes I mentioned would be next to useless also. Not sure about those $800 mills, but mill tooling is expensive and you do need lots and lots of tooling.

Hi Mate ...... ummm ... for various reasons now, I admire you and sincerely respect your knowledge.

Originally Posted by PDW

A Sherline is a feeble toy. Don't do it. Nice machines, but feeble. Tiny work envelope.

Rule of thumb - do not buy *any* multipurpose machine in the hobbyist class. They will do nothing excellently and few things adequately.
Milling attachments on lathes, with a few exceptions like Emco Maximats, are flexible, feeble contraptions that are a waste of time and money.

Get 2 machines, a lathe and a mill. If you don't do this now, you *will* later - or abandon machining out of utter frustration. The resale value of those multifunction machines tends to be poor.

They are separate machines .. but they are small.

Originally Posted by PDW

Before you do *anything* else, sit down and decide on the maximum dimensions of what you want to machine, and what materials you're going to machine. These determine machine choice.

60mm shaft ... short lengths. Probably never more than 300mm long, mostly brass.

Originally Posted by PDW

Budget determines new or a possibly long hunt for good used machinery.

4000 ... but not immediate ... would stretch to 5000 for exceptional. But require both mill and lathe in that budget.

Originally Posted by PDW

With a mill, space in Z axis tends to disappear fast. Add a rotary table, clamps and your chunk of metal to the table, see what's left. Collet chuck or drill chuck - do you actually have enough space to do anything?

PDW

I had not thought of this. I read your post in another thread yesterday on R8 and Collets. I researched both and I think, as I think you advised, a mixture of drill chucks and a 'collet chuck' with a good spread of collets for the most used purposes.

My choice, apart from the Sherline, was an ALG320 and a HM46 ... and .. ummmmmm ... I know its judging books by their covers, but I have been to Hare & Forbes a number of times to window shop both these .... And I would much rather go the next step up with both .. but that is too expensive and too big.

Even tho I have said the Max is 63mm brass shaft .... accuracy in fine detail is very important as well. Do you think Hafcos, well oiled, aligned, and not taken to hi stress levels can achieve/maintain this ?

I am fairly sure that the Sherline Lathe and Mill can reach the accuracy I need and make up for my lack of machining experience.

Much appreciated ... and also for any further advice re: this post.

Greg

Originally Posted by th62

Have you considered something like the H&F AL50 and AL60 Or Titans TL250 and buying a small separate mill like that advertised on ebay for around $800. The only one I have experience with is the AL50 (currently own), it is an excellent machine, very robust and capable of extremely accurate turning.

I'm sorry, I missed this post while replying to the previous. The two Hafco I have considered are the HM46 mill and the ALG320 lathe.

I will check the numbers you gave and read their specs.

Originally Posted by th62

Titan sell a variable speed copy of the AL50. Once again it does depend on what you will use it for, if your making small models, etc, an AL330 would be next to useless, but if your contemplating making larger items then the lathes I mentioned would be next to useless also. Not sure about those $800 mills, but mill tooling is expensive and you do need lots and lots of tooling.

Mostly small ... but up to 60mm shaft to turn/mill complex shapes from.

Thanks mate ... and will check all those now

cool bananas ... Greg

Originally Posted by Mutawintji

My choice, apart from the Sherline, was an ALG320 and a HM46 ... and .. ummmmmm ... I know its judging books by their covers, but I have been to Hare & Forbes a number of times to window shop both these .... And I would much rather go the next step up with both .. but that is too expensive and too big.

Even tho I have said the Max is 63mm brass shaft .... accuracy in fine detail is very important as well. Do you think Hafcos, well oiled, aligned, and not taken to hi stress levels can achieve/maintain this ?

I am fairly sure that the Sherline Lathe and Mill can reach the accuracy I need and make up for my lack of machining experience.

Much appreciated ... and also for any further advice re: this post.

Greg

The Sherlines have a pretty good rep for fit & finish so accuracy should be there. But you'll never be able to take a heavy cut and I shudder to think on machining 316 or worse, 304. I've been doing a lot of 316 recently.

When it comes to machine tools mass is king. No getting around that.

I'd rather the AL335 due to its camlock spindle nose. Not sure what they mean about 'fixed' on the smaller machine. Could be bolt-on. This is secure enough but a PITA if you change chucks frequently. I know because my Emco Maximat 11 has a DIN bolt-on chuck setup. I generally leave the 4 jaw on it.

The AL320 long feed/cross feed setup looks 'interesting'. Might work fine though. No separate power feed shaft, uses a keyway in the lead screw. Not optimal but many older designs did this, in theory higher wear on the leadscrew but in a home shop, I doubt it's an issue as long as the leadscrew wasn't made from leaded free-machining steel. 38mm spindle bore is good.

I think you'd get a lot more lathe for the extra $1000 but - budgets are what they are.

Here's a nice setup but it's about $2000 more than it's worth IMO.

Emco Maximat V10P Precision Metal Lathe With FB2 Milling Head Made IN Austria | eBay

Photo 2 shows the bolt-on chuck, same as my Maximat 11, so I assume this machine has a 25mm spindle bore which is nowhere near as good as 38mm IMO.

I paid $3500 for my Maximat 11 without the milling head 10 years ago and mine had all the accessories plus was in mint mechanical condition, only a few paint scratches. Also those 3 phase motors are 2 speed so a right PITA to drive off of a VFD. Mine is single phase which is one thing I don't like about it.

As for those mills, I don't like any of them, sorry. I just don't like that whole style of mill, I want a mill with a knee. My preferred technique is to raise the table via the knee to get close, bring the quill down to touch off on the work, lock the quill then put any cuts on by raising the knee. That way I've eliminated backlash possibilities.

I know people can do good work on those sorts of machine but I don't care, I don't like them. All 3MT as well so, if I were buying new, I'd cross them off my list on that basis alone.

In your position I'd decide which I would use more, the lathe or the mill, get the best one I could, with the tooling I needed, and wait. If I had the space and power, I'd be looking for an older 3 phase knee type mill, horizontal is fine for a lot of work. They're heavy and take up a fair amount of space though, so you need to factor that in. The small machines do exist, I have a 30" x 8" table horizontal one in really excellent condition with a 3MT vertical head that I'm probably going to sell soon (but it's in Hobart and I'm not freighting it so this isn't a solicitation). I'll probably ask around $1200 with the vertical head, it's roughly what I'd expect one to sell for on Ebay. So they are out there....

PDW