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Thread: Precision Engineers Square
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5th June 2015, 09:56 PM #1
Precision Engineers Square
Today I was thinking about how to get my mill table square with the Y axis again after I finish fitting the DRO's. I decided that it would be best to buy a Precision Engineers Square.
All the ones I have found on the net have had double bevelled edges. As I want to run a DTI along the edge I don't think these are suitable. I have not been able to determine how much of a flat surface is left tho.
Any suggestions?
Dean
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5th June 2015 09:56 PM # ADSGoogle Adsense Advertisement
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5th June 2015, 10:04 PM #2GOLD MEMBER
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Hi Dean, do you have a dial indicator? I made an L bracket that fitted on the back of the DI and used that in the collet to bring it all square. I found it more accurate to do than using a square. What type of mill do you have?
Regards
Kryn
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5th June 2015, 10:12 PM #3GOLD MEMBER
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Hi Dean,
Leave Precision out of your search.
I assume this is the sort of thing you are after
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Moore-Wri...item2a519297fa
Stuart
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5th June 2015, 10:58 PM #4
I was looking for something with a bit more beam/blade thickness. A single piece square.
Precision Engineers Square.jpg
It may be that I have to use what you linked to. The problem is it is hard to tell how thick the blade is as I have to run the DTI along both external edges for best accuracy. I don't trust the slots to be accurate enough and I don't have any accurate way to locate to them. The single piece square above is flat which means I can sit it on the mill table or on equal height buttons for clamping at 3 points. I am only working on what my imagination has come up with so don't make any assumption I know what I am talking about. I am open to any suggestions, but if I recall correctly, there was a thread about doing this some time back and the best that came out of it was to use a square somewhat like I am doing it.
I found M & W squares like that at the same store using "Precision" in my search .
Kryn.
I am talking about a rotating table that needs to be re-set square to the Y axis after being moved re my thread https://www.woodworkforums.com/f65/poor-mans-dro-195371
Mill Table Rotated.jpg
The scale behind the tied up cable is the angle the table is rotated from normal. In this case you are looking at the rear of the table.
Dean
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5th June 2015, 11:55 PM #5Product designer retired
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Engineers squares.
I recently bought a small and medium size square from McJings.
I didn't test for accuracy but they appear to be decent quality, and reasonably priced in a nice plastic case.
I'd say a tad better than your plastic set square.
Ken
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6th June 2015, 12:00 AM #6GOLD MEMBER
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Hi Dean,
Sorry, now I understand what you are trying to do. If you had a piece of bar 10-12 mm thick with 2 machined edges (parallel) that could be bolted to the table, square the bar using any square, check it both sides from the same face, to ensure that it is square to the front edge.
Just because a square is supposed to be, doesn't mean it is, so checking both sides corrects any discrepancies.
Once you have the table set correctly, is it possible to fit a dowel pin to correctly and easily locate each time?
Kryn, again
Hi Ken, I'd check the square to ensure that it's correct. Not trying to be smart, but do you know how to check it?
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6th June 2015, 12:30 AM #7GOLD MEMBER
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Can you use an inside mic off the machined surface on the coloum and the rear of the table.
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6th June 2015, 12:35 AM #8Product designer retired
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Checking a square
KB, you're not being smart, I sometimes use the square as a hammer, just kiddin.
How do you test a square?
Ken
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6th June 2015, 07:58 AM #9Philomath in training
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With a better one -A ground cylindrical square is probably the best master for this. It is checked by measuring diameter top and bottom (that is, is it parallel?), and then on a surface plate measuring the offset of the top with respect to the bottom. If these offset measurements are equal then it is square to the surface. I vaguely recall there is a thread about it somewhere.
Michael
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6th June 2015, 08:49 AM #10Pink 10EE owner
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6th June 2015, 11:15 AM #11
The method I am thinking of is to use the square clamped to the mill table. Dial-in the side running parallel to the X axis adjusting until as close as possible, just like setting the vise parallel.
Using the DTI on the other side of the square, adjust the rotary position of the table until this is true to the Y axis.
If you are after perfection, flip the square over using the Y axis side as the pivot axis and repeat the process, but averaging any variations. If the square is precise there should not be any. OH, we have just checked the square for precision.
This is the same way you check a normal (Woodworking) square, using the square to draw a 90deg line on a sheet of some type with a straight edge, flip and repeat to see if the lines are parallel.
Can you use an inside mic off the machined surface on the coloum and the rear of the table.
The machined surfaces do not extend low enough.
Mill Table Rotated.jpg
I have found a range of squares of the type I am looking for.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/KINEX-403...item487f38932e
Unfortunately there is zero information besides "Product Name: KINEX 4034-15 300 x 200mm Precision Flat Square".
Kinex Square.JPG
How precise is anyones guess. Anyone know how thick the blade is on a Moore and Wright square?
Dean
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6th June 2015, 12:10 PM #12SENIOR MEMBER
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6th June 2015, 12:10 PM #13GOLD MEMBER
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Hi Dean,
The bigger they are the thicker they are, not a lot of help there I know I can measure a few tomorrow if you like. Though even the smallest I have you can run a DTI along.(I'll measure them tomorrow if you like)
I don't have one of the beveled flat ones. but if I recall correctly they are pretty thin.
I rest the square against the front of the table. You could clamp it to the table if you wish.(though as I dont have a swinging table I'm squaring work the the table).
Stuart
p.s. typed last night but still there this morning, I'll get out and get measuring shortly
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6th June 2015, 12:39 PM #14GOLD MEMBER
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Think I've misunderstood the question again.. but as I've already measured them anyway.
50mm square has a 1.5mm blade.
9" is 3mm
24" is 4.8mm
You can check a square without a master square if you have a flat plate.
Measure the blade for parallel. Put the short side on the plate against a straight edge, clamp a stop against the inside of the vertical blade near the bottom, zero a DTI on the inside of the vertical blade near the top, check zero by sliding the square away and back, check square by turning 180. Would be more accurate than using the X axis of my mill as its "less than wonderful", hopefully your mill would do better.
Stuart
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6th June 2015, 02:35 PM #15
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