Thread: testing power points

Originally Posted by another termite

This is the colour code for flexiable cables not for appliances. If they are wired in building wire (TPS) then the red black and green/yellow applies

What sort of appliance is wired with TPS

Ausyuppy is spot on for the current rules.

Cheers, Jack

IMO This thread Shouldn't exist Its a job for an electrician

Only today I go a call from a lady who told me when she touched her dishwasher and sink at the same time she got a shock

When I got there i measures the voltage between the two and guess what she wasn't imagining it it was 116.5v

Guess why???

Someone has wired a Power point wrong??

Not quite
The earth wire was not connected

I could tell by the way the it installed it wasn't done by a sparkie

Oz wiring colours according to the "standard".

Originally Posted by Jack E

What sort of appliance is wired with TPS

Some ovens and cooktops are wired direct to TPS

Originally Posted by scubabob

a "friend of mine" has changed a couple of power points in his house to newer, prettier ones and one of them had different coloured wires and he's not sure if he has put them in correctly.

there is a red wire, presumably active, a green/yellow wire and a bare wire. he has assumed that the bare wire is earth and connected it up to that, the red one to live and the green/yellow to neutral. He hasn't used it yet and isnt game to. is there a way to test if its done properly?

Green and yellow are the standard for the EARTH, Think he should get a sparky to look at his wiring. Or he could plug something in and let the smoke come out.

Seriously if you don't know GET SOME ONE WHO DOES KNOW.

Many contributors to this thread have correctly identified the colour codings and suggested that the offending power-point be checked by a licensed sparky.

However, this may not be the only dodgy bit of wiring. There may be other very amateur wiring elsewhere. I think your friend should get the sparky to test all wiring and give a written report that it is safe and complies with standards.

There are very real safety and liability issues here. What if someone gets electrocuted or there is a fire? Will the insurer deny the claim because of illegal wiring? And you know there is at least one instance of illegal wiring!

I think your friend could be in a potentially serious situation.


Graeme

It is nice to see that your tail wiring is as inconsistent as ours.

My Unisaw is connected to a 240 V power point. The power point has three wires, red, black and green, the is black phase A, the red is phase B and green is earth. Well the factory supplied tail wouldn't reach the power point so I went looking for a longer tail. I went up in size but was irritated that I couldn't find a power cable with black, red and green wires. A neighbor who is a sparky told me that it is acceptable to use the white for one of the phases. (Per our NEC, I marked the white wire to indicate that the wire was hot although the NEC doesn't really apply to the tail of an appliance.)

I installed the plug and finally I'm taking apart the electrics of saw to add the new power tail. Much to my surprise I found that the UL approved, manufacturer supplied power tail used black for phase A, white for phase B and green for earth. That really went against the grain!

Rrich, you're probably aware that the 240v system used in Australia is not a balanced system as used in North America. I once had to point that out to a manufacturer of line filters who was making some rather dubious and somewhat absurd claims. Their reply was, err "we'll look into that". Look into it all you like, it ain't balanced

Originally Posted by rrich

It is nice to see that your tail wiring is as inconsistent as ours.

My Unisaw is connected to a 240 V power point. The power point has three wires, red, black and green, the is black phase A, the red is phase B and green is earth. Well the factory supplied tail wouldn't reach the power point so I went looking for a longer tail. I went up in size but was irritated that I couldn't find a power cable with black, red and green wires. A neighbor who is a sparky told me that it is acceptable to use the white for one of the phases. (Per our NEC, I marked the white wire to indicate that the wire was hot although the NEC doesn't really apply to the tail of an appliance.)

I installed the plug and finally I'm taking apart the electrics of saw to add the new power tail. Much to my surprise I found that the UL approved, manufacturer supplied power tail used black for phase A, white for phase B and green for earth. That really went against the grain!

Rrich, you are obviously from & living in the USA.
Luckily for you, the new NEC code (2008) will be updated to include such "new" terms as "earthing" as opposed to grounding (2 different things) & I do believe that a wiring colour code of sorts will be implemented. The new colour code will follow IEC requirements, as does the rest of the world currently follows.

Originally Posted by Pete F

Rrich, you're probably aware that the 240v system used in Australia is not a balanced system as used in North America. I once had to point that out to a manufacturer of line filters who was making some rather dubious and somewhat absurd claims. Their reply was, err "we'll look into that". Look into it all you like, it ain't balanced

Sorry Pete but the US may have a different system to that of Australia but the word "balanced" still means the same thing in both countries.
A "multiphase system" is said to be "balanced" when the line currents have the same magnitude & Power Factor. Therefore, neither system is "balanced" for general consumer load. The only loads that are considered balanced are 3 phase motors & the like.

Australia, on the whole, uses the TT system. The USA uses some variations to different systems, given the state. This greatly complicates the US system. US sparkies have a horrible job discerning between state rules etc.

Australia, on the other hand, is quite simple (excluding SWER supplies);

1] The main supply is 3 phase (120 degrees apart).
2] From a "consumer" supply point of view, each phase is 240 volts with respect to neutral/earth (MEN system).
3] From a "consumer" point of view, phase to phase voltage is 415 volts.
4] Each "consumer" distribution transformer is Delta (primary) & Star (secondary).

The USA primarilary uses 2 phases (240 volts at 180 degrees) to supply high current equipment. 3 phases are also used (120 degrees). "Earthed leg Delta" transformers are common in the US & non-existant in Australia.

I think we're talking slightly different jargon. Same word, different meaning. The US system is most certainly a "balanced" system where the 2 "phases" (I have subsequently learnt that I am using the term incorrectly) are 180 degrees apart and the centre (or should that be center ) tapped to provide neutral. Whether the LOAD is balanced or not is a whole different animal. Oh here we go, just found a link that explains it a whole lot better than my crappy attempt http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split_phase That transformer shown is wired in a balanced configuration (earth is on centre tap). Ironically the same link goes on to discuss load balancing. Ah, here's a better link that covers balanced power as I meant it. http://www.epanorama.net/documents/g...ced_power.html

My background was not in domestic electrical, so sorry about the confusion.

One problem that comes up with this however is that there is a HUGE difference between the North American 230V system and, say, the Oz 230V single ended system. In Oz we have one live 230V conductor, in North America they have TWO live conductors which between then provide 230V.

Anyway, all a bit technical really

Originally Posted by another termite

Some ovens and cooktops are wired direct to TPS

If ovens and cooktops are wired using TPS then they are "hard wired" and are not an "appliance"

This is why non sparkies should not do their own wiring

Cheers, Jack

Originally Posted by Jack E

If ovens and cooktops are wired using TPS then they are "hard wired" and are not an "appliance"

This is why non sparkies should not do their own wiring

Prehaps you need to consult the wireing rules again then. AS/NZS 3000:2000 including all 3 ammendmants states in paragraph 1.4.6. APPLIANCE : A consuming device, other than a lamp, in which electricity is converted into heat, motion, or any other form of energy, or is substantially changed in its electrical character.

Further rules state appliances can be fixed(1.4.7), hand-held(1.4.8), portable(1.4.9) or stationary(1.4.10)

As far as i am aware appliances can be either 'hard wired' with TPS (and in the case of an oven or stove an isolating switch provided) or plug and socket useing flex as the lead.

The bare wire could be the neutral if the insulation has come off .Yes this has happened to me when the wive wanted pretty switchs fitted, the wiring was quite old.