Thread: P & N Tools

Thanks for the nice words. As far as I know this profile is unique to P&N right now although I seem to recall that Sheffield used to do one like it - but many years ago.
The reason I like it is that the shallow flute allows a very much longer and more generous bevel and thus a much larger bearing surface for bevel supported cutting. You can also adjust the point profile to your taste; I use a fairly pointed tool for face work which gives me a lot of scope when detailing bowl feet, for instance, and a more conventional finger nail profile for centre work - yes this tool is brilliant at each.
IMHO, this tool is probably only acceptable in HSS because the acuteness of the angle you can put on HSS tools is quite a bit more than you can with carbon steel tools for those of us who date that far back. HSS, being so much more durable can take a very aggressive angle but there are other considerations. A snappy or very long bevel works like a dream but, no free lunch here, because the skill requirement goes up with the bevel length.
As noted earlier these tools come from P&N grossly blunt and flat ground (see the pic) but they do at least have an approximate shape to start from.

Sorry I don't know how to include a pic
It's at http://www.thewoodworks.com.au/produ...GES/T6342.html

G'Day Mike

good to have you on board, I must browse through your site later, I have a Henry Taylor HS1 Superflute, and find it excellent. After reading your original message I went looking to see what catenary shape meant and come up with this pic, not far removed from the shape of my HS1 gouge.

Cheers
Bernie

Sounds good Mike.

I'm good for a 10mm detail gouge. Seems close enough to what I'm looking for.

Will post comments when I'm on P plates with it

... might need some tips when the L's are out and will post you Mike.

Well she's arrived. Thanks Mike.

Nice finish with the bottom of the shank polished for fitting into a handle. [Are P&N getting fussy about finish these days? Good thing.]

See your point. Looong bevel.

Looks hairy. I can see why you might want to grind it fingernail for spindle work. Those corners are in your face ;-}

Glad you like it. The squared off plan view shape which produces those corners is as you say not useful. About the only angle and profile they get about right IMHO is the underbevel but you have to grind that hollow as well so there is a good few minutes of stuffing about to get it right.

If you do face pieces experiment with it while detailing feet and rims - great access and control. If you ever meet George Hatfield talk with him about P&N detail gouges. He's a huge fan and made them required for use in TAFE .

P&N a year or so ago did lift their presentation a lot although I still can't persuade them to run a mill down the flute of their 40mm rougher. It's still just belted into a fluted shape by a drop hammer I suspect and not ground and polished after forging. If they took that trouble they would have the best on this earth and the tool would be better than even the Henry Taylor.

Originally Posted by Mike Jefferys

.... If you ever meet George Hatfield talk with him about P&N detail gouges......

While you have his attention, ask him about Gidgee from CW Qld.

Source: Keith Bootle "Wood In Australia" First ed. 1983
Gidgee, Georgina Acacaia georginae
Air Dry Density 1330 kg per cubic metre
Durability: Class 1
Strength: Class 1
Hardness (Janka): 19

The only wood in the world with a claimed higher Janka is Lignum vitae at 20. Balsa 0.4, Aust 'Cedar' 2.3, Sydney Blue Gum 9.0

(Source Wikipedia: The Janka test measures the force required to embed a 11.28 millimeter (0.444 inch) steel ball into wood to half its diameter. This method was chosen so that the result would leave an indention 100 square millimeters in size. It is one of the best measures of the ability of a wood species to withstand denting and wear. It is also a good indicator of how hard a species is to saw or nail.)

I think I must be turning some of that at the moment. Close relative to steel but second cousin to concrete.

Yeah, and you get to the end of your (small!) bowl, do the sanding and the friggin stuff cracks

... still got your big lump Vern. It's going to be a carved piece to make the most of those flutes when I get round to mounting the chuck on a long enough 30mm bolt.

It is weird stuff, shatters rather than cuts but scraps to almost a mirror finish.

Polishes nicely, just do NOT heat it up.

Greoge got a surprise to find that a scraper worked better than a detail gouge on a candle holder he was making.

Anybody who has been told time and again that cutting is ALWAYS superior to scraping hasn't had one of those moments. Polish the back of the scraper as much as possible first, then put a nice fresh burr on, get the right amount of tool in contact and the right angle, soft hands and some woods come up like glass.

I have been intermittently working my way through one very old, solid ringed gidgee that I picked up in western NSW where it is a relatively rare acacia I understand - its normal latitudes is higher. You can use metal polishing techniques, compounds etc on the stuff. Makes great small work like jewellery. A genuine shaving would be unusual though I'd say and watch the dust, it gives me a particular taste in the back of my mouth and immediately raises my heartbeat. Must have some interesting chemicals in it unless of course the cocky put agent orange on the tree to kill it in the first place!

Any mulga and other acacia species splinters fester in your skin in record time out there. These species are set up to survive.

I had some pink ringed gidgee that had a very high oil content & I could get a plume of stuff like cobwebb to float off it using a gouge rolled over on the side as a shearscraper.

It was very interesting stuff to work but it eventually cracks from the heart out as it dries over the years.

Sorry about the Hijack.

Originally Posted by Mike Jefferys

.............. I'd say and watch the dust, it gives me a particular taste in the back of my mouth and immediately raises my heartbeat. Must have some interesting chemicals in it unless of course the cocky put agent orange on the tree to kill it in the first place!

Any mulga and other acacia species splinters fester in your skin in record time out there. These species are set up to survive.

Here's the good news for ya then . The chemical in Gidgee that gives you that taste is what they use to make 1080 from. Bet that gives you a warm, fuzzy feelin' eh! Do what I do - keep turning it and think about something else!!! - it's too good not to!

For those outside Oz, 1080 is a poison they use for wild dogs down here (don't wanna upset WD by callin' it 'Dingo bait' )