Thread: Butt hinge placement question

Hi Danny

make sure you have two marking gauges, a marking knife (an Xacto hobby knife is ideal) and very sharp chisels.
Go slowly, and you'll be able to remove the wood neatly to your knife lines.

Practice a few times on a piece of scrap. You'll be surprised how easily a sharp chisel can peel away slivers of wood.

I would be paranoid about getting tearout using a dado set to cut a hinge mortise across the grain. As Ian says you will be surprised how easy it is to pare away wood with a sharp chisel. If you're still doubtful practise the method demonstrated in the photo. As to the hinge placement yes you can probably get away with setting the barrel of the hinge slightly in to the side of the box, say to the edge of the pin.

Yeah, I was thinking I could do the cut from inside out - as the blade will be set low, I could start it 'inside' the box and cut towards the outside, with some scrap clamped on to avoid tearout... But that seems clunky to say the least.

Advice taken, thank you Ian and aldav. I will practice my chisel skills some and see if I can convince myself I have the skills to do it properly!

Originally Posted by rtyuiop

Yeah, I was thinking I could do the cut from inside out - as the blade will be set low, I could start it 'inside' the box and cut towards the outside, with some scrap clamped on to avoid tearout... But that seems clunky to say the least.

No, never do a hinge that way - cutting across the grain. Too often ends in tears.

Best way to do small butt hinges with a 2mm slither is as follows.

Use a marking gauge to scribe a line along the inside edge of the hinge (or where the hinge will be). Deepen this line slightly with a Stanley knife. Be careful of the 2mm slither to remain but 2mm is plenty really.
Use a Stanley knife to do the stop cuts at the ends of the hinge, cutting from the ends of the slit made in the previous step to the outside edge of the box wall.
Then hold a chisel nearly vertical and make a series of shallow stabs, each about 2mm apart, across grain, working within the area marked out by your 3 cuts. As you do each cut, flick the little slice of loosened timber out.

That's it.

This way you avoid slicing horizontally as it is so easy to overshoot.

Plenty of videos of this on YouTube.

If you bury the barrel by 50% (ie half the barrel hangs out behind the box), you will get a nice effect, small gap when opened and no need to mitre the edges.

Also, make the mortises only about 70% of depth of hinge leaf, so there is a tiny gap at back when the lid is closed. Let's the box lid sit better and removes risk of 'sprung lid'.

Check out Paul Seller's video on setting hinges


In addition

• Your chisel must be really sharp, otherwise you won't get a crisp cut
• I notice that Paul Seller is able to determine how deep the chisel will cut by taping it from above, but I have a problem. I usually either go too deep or too shallow. So I start the mortise by pushing/taping the chisel in from the side at the desire depth and then from the top along the grain to expose the surface at that depth. I also colour the surface at that depth before I start the process that he advocate.
• I know then if i go too deep, my colouring will disappear.

Edit: adding my own twist.

Originally Posted by justonething

Check out Paul Seller's video on setting hinges

In addition

• Your chisel must be really sharp, otherwise you won't get a crisp cut
  
• I notice that Paul Sellers is able to determine how deep the chisel will cut by taping it from above, but I have a problem. I usually either go too deep or too shallow. So I start the mortise by pushing/taping the chisel in from the side at the desire depth and then from the top along the grain to expose the surface at that depth.

Better to be on the shallow side. Making two shallow cuts is far better than over shooting the depth on the first pass

Originally Posted by justonething

• I also colour the surface at that depth before I start the process that he advocate.
• I know then if i go too deep, my colouring will disappear.

the scribe line, if made with a marking gauge is all the indication you need. If done "properly" it will show as a shiny line when your mortice gets to the desired depth

I agree with the "just practice a few times" mentality. 2mm is small, but you should be able to leave that. Just be careful, take your time, ensure your tools are sharp, and avoid making any significant cuts toward the 2mm wall that could result in serious damage in the event of a slip.

Router plane is your friend here.

Cheers,
Luke

Now that's a lot of tips! I will give it a try when the hinges arrive, as I realised that if I destroy the 2mm side wall I could just cut it out and be left with the same sort of through mortise I was looking at with a dado cut.

Thanks everyone. Will post some pics of the result when I get the box finished - over the weekend, hopefully!

Originally Posted by rtyuiop

..... if I destroy the 2mm side wall I could just cut it out and be left with the same sort of through mortise I was looking at with a dado cut.....

Ah Ha.

Orrrrrrr

You could glue in a 2mm slither of wood after you install the hinge if you do destroy the boarder.



That being said it would be preferred that you do not blow out the 2mm boarder as to install 2mm slither of wood is way more work then originally intended. You are pretty much working with something that is just about the size of a toothpick. Having to use tweezers and tiny amount of glue, then cleaning up the tweezers and unsticking your fingers from the tweezers. BUT don't ask me how I know.

I've got these mortises cut (with one only slightly disastrous error), just need to find some time to install the hinges and see if the box still closes!

The mortising actually went OK, but I went horribly wrong with drilling and installing the hinges!

I got the hinges installed at a slight angle on the body - so then to try to keep things as straight as possible I had to widen/re-orient the mortises on the top, which of course ended up with gaps around the hinges, and additionally the lid wasn't quite straight, so I have to sand the top and body back so the outside edges lined up (the inside edges will still be crooked, but no big deal).

There are other issues with the box so I'm not too worried about it, but man, talk about a learning experience. Need some more practice at this box making caper!





Thanks for all the advice folks. This forum is a great resource!

Danny

I think the box looks great.

I struggle with hinges. It's something I just can't seem to visualize correctly for some reason, and I almost always have at least one "mulligan" attempt. It's a big place for improvement for me, but it's not exactly the easiest thing to practice...

Glad you decided to just leave the little walls. Looks good that way.

Nice work,
Luke

Very nice box A lot of people create a small chamfer on the lid and the box where they meet, it helps to disguise any minor misalignment issues.

Yeah, I am glad I managed to keep the walls (the hinge issues are elsewhere), it would have ruined the effect of the thin layer of huon around the inside if I'd cut it out.

Still - I'm mainly a believer in power tools wherever possible, but I've come around to hand planing being very therapeutic... However picking up a chisel and a mallet is just plain stressful!