Thread: Recommendation for hoop pine clear coat?

Greetings,

I use the Cabothane Water Based Satin Poly Urethane (PolyU) Varnish for finishing a lot of the stuff that I make.

One major downside of the water based PolyU, when used on it's own, is that it dries very nearly perfectly clear. That is, the PolyU applies almost no colour to the timber at all. That tends to leave the finished timber looking rather "dead". On it's own, water based Poly Urethane doesn't do much in the way of bringing out the best appearance that is possible from grain and figure of the wood. With Hoop Pine, there will be very little change in colour before and after applying the water based PolyU, and any figure in the wood will not be enhanced by applying water based PolyU alone.

Most people find the "dead" appearance (maybe "very neutral appearance" is another way of saying it) to not be what they're looking for. If you're not sure, grab a scrap of Hoop Pine, sand it thru the grits from 80 grit up to 180 grit, then apply some water based PolyU. You'll have to sand lightly with say 240 grit between each coat of PolyU. The first coast of water based PolyU will raise the grain, so don't be alarmed when it happens. Just lightly sand off the raised grain before applying the next coat. Three coats overall should be enough. If you like the look, then go ahead. I normally spray the water based PolyU, but brushing works OK, once you develop your brushing technique. The key is to brush thin even coats. If you apply thick coats, the water based PolyU will end up looking like a layer of plastic on the wood.

However, if you're looking to enhance the appearance of the grain and figure in the timber, then what I do is to sand the wood to 180 grit. Then I apply one or two coats of Ubeaut Shellac as the "primer coats". The shellac uses Methylated Spirits as the solvent, so it does not raise the grain in the wood, and it dries very quickly, and almost any finish can be applied over the top of Shellac. Using the Shellac for the primer coats also adds colour to the wood, and enhances the appearance of the grain and figure in the wood. When the Shellac has had an hour or so to dry hard, I lightly sand the Shellac with 320 grit paper, then start applying about three layers of the water based PolyU, sanding between coats as above. If you accidentally sand through the shellac, then simply apply another coat of shellac, and try sanding again, but with a more gentle touch.

The Ubeaut Shellac is available from Carbatec, but if you're a bit too far from the Carbatec shop in Brisbane, then Bunnings outlets usually have Feast Watson Shellac Flakes in stock. The Feast Watson Shellac seems to vary a bit in colour compared with Ubeaut's product, but I've used Feast Watson Shellac when I've been unable to get my hands on Ubeaut Shellac, and it seems to work OK. Masters have a "clear" shellac available in the Zinser brand, but it won't be much use in this case as it doesn't add any colour to the job.

As you're using Hoop Pine, do not be tempted to try staining the Hoop Pine with any of the water based (or oil based) stains that are available. Hoop Pine tends to blotch badly when you try to stain it, and you'll end up with a most unpleasant and uneven staining job. There are anti-blotching products available from a few companies that you use before applying the stain to blotch prone woods like Hoop Pine, but from my experience these anti-blotching products work, but they muddy the appearance of the grain and figure in the wood.

Hope that info helps.

Regards,

RoyG

Thanks RoyG for your comprehensive reply! I'll try out your suggestion and do some comparisons between clearcote only and shellac + clearcote on some hoop pine scraps and see what I like.

I have used the Estapol satin water-based clear finishes on a Hoop Pine bookcase I made and my client (my father, no payment involved) was very happy with the appearance. It is easy to use, easy to clean up from, and pleasant in appearance (to my eye). That is unusual for me as I French Polish most things with brown button shellac, which gives them a lovely colour and glow. I have found the flake shellac to give a fairly orange colour, which I do not like, so, as RoyG says, it is better to do some tests before you ruin your crafstmanship.

I think that I purchased the Estapol from Bunnies, but it could also have been from a Paint Place.

David

Thanks Xanthorrhoeas. I suspect in the room the desk will be used that it may actually look better with no added colour or warmth to the hoop pine, so I might be able to get away with no shellec. The piece is modern with deliberate, accentuated shadow lines, so retaining the lightness of the wood would be a nice contrast. Anyway, I guess I won't know for sure until I test out the options.

Just asking ...... what is the obsession with water bassed finish.

Ya do know there is no such thing ...... there mich be a lot of water in the can and you may use water to thin the product ...... but there is always some other solvent involved, alcahol, ammonia, glycol or a mix of such.

Most of the water bassed clears I find disapointing ..... lacking clarity & life and certainly lacking durability.

cheers

Hi soundman, no obsession as such. It's just as a relative newbie I got the impression that clean-up is harder, application is less forgiving and more yellowing results over time with oil-based finishes. But if you have other information or suggestions I'm all ears. My main criteria as I say above are "I'm not too concerned about price. I just want a hard-wearing, low streak finish (I have brushes only, no spray) with as little mess and fuss as possible."

Thanks.

Originally Posted by brianhay

Hi soundman, no obsession as such. It's just as a relative newbie I got the impression that clean-up is harder, application is less forgiving and more yellowing results over time with oil-based finishes. But if you have other information or suggestions I'm all ears. My main criteria as I say above are "I'm not too concerned about price. I just want a hard-wearing, low streak finish (I have brushes only, no spray) with as little mess and fuss as possible."

Thanks.

Hi Brian,

Some people have an excess of certainty in their life, not always justified, if you know what I mean. I wear my woodworking and finishing L plates with pride and intend to keep them all my life. Learning is growing and keeping one's brain alive.

For most uses I much prefer shellac and French Polish, but I can see the advantages for some new work in using a water-based polyurethane, and can also understand there is also an optimum (at least for them) for each of the numerous finishing methods forumites proclaim, to each his own, live and let live.

Another project that I used the water-based, satin, crystal clear Estapol to finish was this wishbone leg table for my son and daughter-in-law. They have had it for almost a year now and the finish is holding up well. The top is recycled Oregon Pine and the legs are Tasmanian Blackwood. It gives you an idea of what you can expect from the finish, which was applied with a good quality very fine synthetic "bristle" brush the paint shop recommended.

1-Wishbone table from above at end a.jpg2-Wishbone table from end b.jpg3-Wishbone table oblique a.jpg

I certainly would not say that water bassed fnishes are more forgiving ..... especially when it comes to surface contamination and oil


As far as easier clean up ....... yeh, I have no problem with a tin of solvent.

Shelac is probaly the easiest clean up there is ..... appart from the higher order products, shelac will clean up with meths at any time ...... if you have a problem you can wipe the whole lot off with a rag and a bowl of meths at any time.

Water base is being sold heavily to the DIY market ..... but the older solvent bassed products sill have it all over water base most of the time.

cheers

Hi,
I like the water based finishes for the short drying time, 2 hours against 8 to 24 hours between coats. Means 1 day to finish instead of 3.
Horses for courses of coarse, I also use shellac, oils and oil based varnishes depending on the job and what I am trying to achieve.
Regards

Mate if you want speed ...... ya cant touch Nitro laquer or anythng thinned with thinners or alcahol.

A thin coat of nitro in warm weather is off in minutes ...... same with shelac ... 15 minutes half an hour and its as off as it ever will be.

cheers