Thread: A Slack-Sellars ripsaw

Nice find Ian. Would be so much nicer if it had a more stylish handle fitted..

Stewie.

Hi Ian,

Slack Sellers are one of those very rare Sheffield sawmakers who survived over a very long period, the earliest incarnation "Slack Sellers & Grayson" go back to 1833

The finished making saws in November 1996, and were purchased by Flinn in 1999

Thomas Flinn, make Garlick, Pax, Lynx and so on.

Yours looks like 1950's or 60's I imagine it should be ok, with a tune up, and a little of that IanW sharpening magic, but, sorry, I doubt that it's going to be a premium user.

Why are they so scarce? good question, don't know.

Regards
Ray

They also have one of the prettiest logos to be found on a saw.
Cheers,
Jim

Is 7 TPI fine for a rip saw? Is it intended only for hardwood? I had the impression rip saws were more commonly 4 1/2 TPI etc. I have never heard of the brand before.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Is 7 TPI fine for a rip saw? Is it intended only for hardwood?

Nope, Bushmiller, it's quite a handy row of fangs, in fact. I already have a 4 1/2 and a 7 and I use one about as often as the other. The finer pitch is much nicer to use when ripping a board less than say 30mm thick.

Not sure what you mean about it being only for hardwoods. I choose the number of teeth per inch based on the thickness of the material being cut, not the hardness of the wood. If I was making a saw exclusively for either soft or hard woods, I would alter the rake angle of the teeth, not the pitch. For softer woods, the rake can be more aggressive - up to zero on a rip saw (i.e. the leading edge of the tooth at 90 deg. to the tooth line). However, since saws usually have to tackle a wide range of woods, I find it's safer to stick with a more 'relaxed' rake angle that can handle both. I experimented a lot with rake angles & 'hybrid' tooth profiles on back saws. You can get away with a high rake angle on very fine saws (>16 tpi, say), it makes them feel very "bitey". But you start to notice an increasing roughness from about 15 tpi down, so I have come full circle & now settle for pretty traditional angles on my saws.

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

I have never heard of the brand before.

Apart from the one Scribbly Gum had a while back, me neither. My guess is it just wasn't a brand that was imported to Oz., or at least not in significant quantities, or maybe they were, but badged as something else? Slack-Sellars made saws for a very long time, so there should be quite a few still kicking around the world, somewhere.

Ray says this is probably not a "premium" saw, but the metal in the blade seems good - I have only used it to make one short test cut, so won't be able to report on how well it lasts for a while. I will probably clean up that ugly handle, but I can live with the coarse grind marks on the blade. My post-WW2 'Spearior' is the same. I suppose the grinding process was speeded up, like everything else in this world - "Never mind how it looks, just look at how many we can make in a day...!"

Cheers,

I have a nice Slack and Sellars tenon saw I picked up a year or two back. Never heard of them before that.
Jim

Morning all.

I've four Slack-Sellars. A brass backed tenon saw, a steel backed small tenon or dovetail (both closed handled) a skewback handsaw, prob post- or very close around WW2 and a big old straightback hand saw complete with nib and split nuts. Was told by one of the instructors at yesterday TTTG Saw Sharpening Workshop that it was almost certainly late 19thC.

The "new" ones are good, thought the dovetail's handle is quite uncomfortable. The old one however is pretty much dead. Not much tension in the blade (quite a droop, must be old age...) and some pretty serious rust problems (holes are pretty serious aren't they?). I've never thought of them as common but I've seen enough to think that they aren't particularly rare.

Maybe they were that good that they all got used up.

Cheers,
Virg.

Holes don't have to be serious Virg. Drill them out, add a few more and you'll start never-ending discussions on whether it was a bespoke saw meant to deal with resinous timbers in some outflung outpost of Empire.
Cheers,
Jim

Slack Sellars and Tyzacks were high quality Sheffield saw makers. They both lasted longer than most as independent enterprises but died out in the last round of industry 'rationalisation' in the UK. I tend to prefer Tyzacks, but only becasue they have handles that suit my paw a bit better.

Originally Posted by IanW

Not sure what you mean about it being only for hardwoods. I choose the number of teeth per inch based on the thickness of the material being cut, not the hardness of the wood. If I was making a saw exclusively for either soft or hard woods, I would alter the rake angle of the teeth, not the pitch.

Cheers,

Ian

Yes, my impression was that the coarse tooth rip saws were primarily for soft woods. However for hard woods typically cross cut saws were used for ripping. For a carpenter of yesteryear perhaps not many would have had the luxury of a fine tooth rip saw, hence the use of crosscut.

I remember my father ripping timber when I was a small child. He had one or maybe two handsaws, both were crosscut so that was what he used. He had the grand total of one power tool, an under powered black and decker drill (which I noticed my sister has acquired). He thought he was in seventh heaven.

It is ironic that enthusiasts such as yourself are those able to indulge in luxuries that were unavailable to people of the tool's era.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

.....It is ironic that enthusiasts such as yourself are those able to indulge in luxuries that were unavailable to people of the tool's era.

Well, I take you point B.M., but the old chippies I knew did have several saws of each type in their kits, & by golly they knew how to make those things perform. My old pot was a chippie before he went farming after the war. He kept a couple of ripsaws, and I think the one I saw him use most was a 7 tooth, but he did have a 5, too. I don't think I ever saw him use a crosscut for ripping, unless it was a very short rip & the more appropriate saw was well out of reach. While you can rip almost as well with a crosscut of similar pitch over a short distance, I reckon a properly sharpened and appropriately-toothed rip will out-perform a crosscut by a good margin over the medium to long haul. As with most old-timers, my father always sharpened his own saws, and they were pretty damn good, too (except after I had tried sawing through a nail or two! )

I agree we weekend warriors are probably more analytical about handsaws than my father's type. We need to be, to try & figure out some of the lost arts. The generations that used hand saws for a living had well-seasoned sawyers to teach them the fundamentals, & years of learning on the job - they didn't have to think about what they were doing & why. However, I don't think of handsaws as a luxury item - my few have to earn their keep & their place in the toolbox. I burn electrons any time it's appropriate, and would never give up my tablesaw, but the handsaws come out for all sorts of jobs, where they can be quicker, safer, & sometimes more accurate than a circular saw.

Cheers,

As you'll know Ian, never get in an arm-wrestling contest (or hand gripping) with a tradesman of the old school.
I remember my FIL being taken aback at the last place he worked when he found out that he was the only one who still sharpened his own saws. The rest had theirs collected and delivered at work.
Cheers,
Jim

Originally Posted by IanW

I don't think I ever saw him use a crosscut for ripping, unless it was a very short rip & the more appropriate saw was well out of reach.
Cheers,

I often reach for a handsaw when it would take longer to unwind the cord on the circular saw!

Regards
Paul

Virg and Jim

On the subject of holes in saws, I was in Bunnys a couple of hours ago and I noticed a hand saw, probably hardpoint, but it had what I can only describe as scallops or semi elipses cut out of the blade.

There may be hope for your ancient Slack Sellars yet. I suppose if the tension and temper are back in the 19th century it may be a lost cause though.

Regards
Paul