Thread: Anyone in Queensland

What Doug said. Don't spend any money till you come round if you can bare the wait.

I've got a 1 1/2 horse ozito you can play with aswell. It will show you the difference between a cheap router and a quality one. Also the difference in using a smaller router hand held and a heavier one.

What I'd like to do is have a good chat about what you hope to achieve and where your at now, then maybe I can suggest some options. There are always 100 ways to skin a cat and 100 different cats that need skinning, so it really depends on whether your building guitars or decks or boats and whether you prefer hand tools, hand held power tools or bench mounted tools or whatever.

Like I say don't spend money you don't have to. Carbatec is a choice place to lighten your wallet but once the novelty wears off you might have preferred to spend on something else.

Also the club is a great resource and the shared machines are a big money saver if you care to go that way. I'm not a member but the members I've met have been outstanding people.

2c

I have a small Ozito that has never been out of the box. Won as a door prize! I hear they are not the best but sometimes even
A reputedly "bad" brand can produce a good machine.

How well does your Ozito perform Damian?

I also own an old Hitachi TR12. Very solid and reliable.

I have an old B&D 1//4" plunge router. Good little machine but the plunge system is woeful. The handle that twists to lock it in place
just doesn't work any longer.

I believe DEWALT is the replacement for B&D.

Hi Damian,

Basically I want to start making storage things with drawers, so I want to be able to make the joints and the slots for the bottom of the drawers to sit in.
My second thing is rabbeting, I want to make picture frames.

I've read up on dovetail jigs etc etc and at the moment I'm leaning towards the hand making of those.

Then of course I'd like to make "pretty" details on doors and drawers and I think for that the ogee bit is what I'm needing but then again I know nothing
so that's where hopefully you'll allow me to pick your brains.

Once I understand How something works I can work the rest out, it's just the start so I am so grateful of your help. Working out the differences between
quality will be handy, as will being able to actually use a few routers to see which one suits. I know that with everything else I've done in my life I'm thorough
and would prefer to spend the money up front than buy crap things.

And of course, when I win the powerball tonight, or the $30 million on Saturday I'll be able to buy the best. And of course shout the woodworkforums qld
residents a few beers lol

I'm very grateful for your help and I can't wait to get there. Thanks again.

Rachal

Originally Posted by damian

What Doug said. Don't spend any money till you come round if you can bare the wait.

I've got a 1 1/2 horse ozito you can play with aswell. It will show you the difference between a cheap router and a quality one. Also the difference in using a smaller router hand held and a heavier one.

What I'd like to do is have a good chat about what you hope to achieve and where your at now, then maybe I can suggest some options. There are always 100 ways to skin a cat and 100 different cats that need skinning, so it really depends on whether your building guitars or decks or boats and whether you prefer hand tools, hand held power tools or bench mounted tools or whatever.

Like I say don't spend money you don't have to. Carbatec is a choice place to lighten your wallet but once the novelty wears off you might have preferred to spend on something else.

Also the club is a great resource and the shared machines are a big money saver if you care to go that way. I'm not a member but the members I've met have been outstanding people.

2c

Originally Posted by artme

I have a small Ozito that has never been out of the box. Won as a door prize! I hear they are not the best but sometimes even
A reputedly "bad" brand can produce a good machine.

How well does your Ozito perform Damian?

I also own an old Hitachi TR12. Very solid and reliable.

I have an old B&D 1//4" plunge router. Good little machine but the plunge system is woeful. The handle that twists to lock it in place
just doesn't work any longer.

I believe DEWALT is the replacement for B&D.

Arthur

I think you are right that quite often a cheaper brand can perform above the level expected. I have seen that with some of the old GMC stuff. I have two GMC routers, the large Triton and a large Makita 3HP as well as the Makita laminate trimmer.

I actually decided that I am going to trade in the laminate trimmer (probably here on the forums) and replace it with the DeWalt combination I have made reference to earlier. I went to take some pictures and remembered I have lent it to a friend for a small job so that will have to wait until it comes back.

I don't know if B & D products are still available in Oz. DeWalt has always been around and is the industrial arm of Black and Decker. However they enjoy superior status to the old B & Ds.
I have only one DeWalt tool. Actually, I have six, no make that five. When I think about it is only three.

I had better explain. I bought a job lot of six DeWalt 14" drop saws for $160 about eight years ago. I exchanged one with a work colleague for a couple of spare gearboxes and out of the remaining saws I have made four good machines. Gave another away to a good friend who stores some wood working machinery for me in his shed, gave one to my son and have three left of which two are in working condition.

Sorry Rachal, none of that is much use to you in your quest for a router, but I suffer from chronic, irreversible digression disease: More commonly known as woffle .

Just explaining in my long-winded way that DeWalt is a few notches up from the old Black and Decker gear, which is probably on a par with Ozito. My Ozito router lasted about a fortnight before the smoke escaped from the motor.

Regards
Paul

Originally Posted by Bushmiller

Arthur

I think you are right that quite often a cheaper brand can perform above the level expected. I have seen that with some of the old GMC stuff. I have two GMC routers, the large Triton and a large Makita 3HP as well as the Makita laminate trimmer.

I actually decided that I am going to trade in the laminate trimmer (probably here on the forums) and replace it with the DeWalt combination I have made reference to earlier. I went to take some pictures and remembered I have lent it to a friend for a small job so that will have to wait until it comes back.

I don't know if B & D products are still available in Oz. DeWalt has always been around and is the industrial arm of Black and Decker. However they enjoy superior status to the old B & Ds.
I have only one DeWalt tool. Actually, I have six, no make that five. When I think about it is only three.

I had better explain. I bought a job lot of six DeWalt 14" drop saws for $160 about eight years ago. I exchanged one with a work colleague for a couple of spare gearboxes and out of the remaining saws I have made four good machines. Gave another away to a good friend who stores some wood working machinery for me in his shed, gave one to my son and have three left of which two are in working condition.

Sorry Rachal, none of that is much use to you in your quest for a router, but I suffer from chronic, irreversible digression disease: More commonly known as woffle .

Just explaining in my long-winded way that DeWalt is a few notches up from the old Black and Decker gear, which is probably on a par with Ozito. My Ozito router lasted about a fortnight before the smoke escaped from the motor.

Regards
Paul

Hi Paul, that's a bad disease, I've heard, but apparently very common so at least you aren't alone. And even though you think it's useless information I find it helpful. I've actually heard quite a lot about DeWalt so it's good to have a few views.

Of course I've heard a lot about Ozito and Black & Decker now too so my decision is a lot harder. I'm sure Damian and Darren are going to help me sort this conundrum out..... at least I hope so. lol

Originally Posted by rachal73

And of course, when I win the powerball tonight, or the $30 million on Saturday I'll be able to buy the best. And of course shout the woodworkforums qld residents a few beers lol

I'm very grateful for your help and I can't wait to get there. Thanks again.

Rachal

Rachal, I am in Melbourne, not Qld, If you win, i will be disappointed if you dont send me a carton at least! I cant even get a carton of XXXX heavy down here!

The 1400w triton would easily handle the drawer making stuff and the rabbeting for picture frames and other joinery.

as for profiling the picture frames and doors etc, depending on the size of the bits you intend to use the larger router may be useful, but then not essential depending on how much of that type of work you intend to do. If it is only a small part of the operation, then the smaller router would still cope but you would have to take shallower passes and work up to the desired result. I am talking maybe 3 passes with the big router as opposed to 5 passes with the smaller one, for example. Not a real big issue.

However, When it comes to profiling door and picture frame edges, and taple tops, benchtops etc, once they reach a certain size it becomes impractical to profile them on a router table and it is essential to pull the router out of the table and do it hand-held with a bearing guided bit.

This is when you would benefit from the smaller, lighter, less powerful machine. This is also where you could use an offset router base to help you keep the router balanced when edge profiling. I am pretty sure that Damien will be able to tell you what I mean when you go to see him.

Hopefully we arent throwing you into information overload, Rachal. SO just in case thats all for now. Go and see Damien, His advice has been great, I hope I have been able to enhance the experience in some way.

Doug

Of course I'd sent a carton down to Melbourne Doug. Just for you. So you didn't feel left out..

As for overloading me with information, I am so grateful to you all. I have so much information now that when I do get to play with Damians routers I'll be able to understand exactly what I'm holding.

Although I didn't know about the offset router base so that's another thing I'm going to have to ask Damian. I'm pretty sure he has no idea what he's in for lol I hope he has a lot of patience.

I just can't wait to get in there and have a go.

So if anyone's bored they can next tell me how to understand Router bit sizing and what measurement I need to know and understand lol

Just kidding.

Rachal

Originally Posted by doug3030

Rachal, I am in Melbourne, not Qld, If you win, i will be disappointed if you dont send me a carton at least! I cant even get a carton of XXXX heavy down here!

The 1400w triton would easily handle the drawer making stuff and the rabbeting for picture frames and other joinery.

as for profiling the picture frames and doors etc, depending on the size of the bits you intend to use the larger router may be useful, but then not essential depending on how much of that type of work you intend to do. If it is only a small part of the operation, then the smaller router would still cope but you would have to take shallower passes and work up to the desired result. I am talking maybe 3 passes with the big router as opposed to 5 passes with the smaller one, for example. Not a real big issue.

However, When it comes to profiling door and picture frame edges, and taple tops, benchtops etc, once they reach a certain size it becomes impractical to profile them on a router table and it is essential to pull the router out of the table and do it hand-held with a bearing guided bit.

This is when you would benefit from the smaller, lighter, less powerful machine. This is also where you could use an offset router base to help you keep the router balanced when edge profiling. I am pretty sure that Damien will be able to tell you what I mean when you go to see him.

Hopefully we arent throwing you into information overload, Rachal. SO just in case thats all for now. Go and see Damien, His advice has been great, I hope I have been able to enhance the experience in some way.

Doug

Rachal, you mentioned dovetails for your drawers. You said you would do them by hand as you see tings at the moment.

Dovetails can be cut by hand or by using any number of woodworking machines utilizing various jigs and fixtures. I have cut dovetail joints, both tails and pins by hand, with a tablesaw, bandsaw, router and probably other ways I have forgotten.

I now classify dovetails into two categories: functional and ornamental.

Functional: These I define as the traditional use that the joint was originally designed for. Drawers is a classic example, particularly big drawers that will carry a lot of weight. I tend to hand-cut dovetails for large functional items, but sometimes it makes more sense to do it another way, usually the tablesaw or bandsaw, rarely the router, but sometimes it is still ok. In these items the dovetail is for strength and is usually out of sight behind a drawer front for example.

Ornamental: This is when the dovetails are mainly for appearance, not strength and functionality These are generally little boxes etc where the corners are the decorative feature of the object. For these, I pull out the incra jig and the router table and pull out contrasting pieces of wood and do double dovetails, dovetail corner posts, pinned dovetails, visible splines. On a project like this I can sit for hours selecting stock that will work well together with contrasting colours and grains. You can get really amazing results. There is nothing you can do with any router jig that you cannot duplicate by hand but the reverse does not apply, but for ornamental I can do it faster and neater on the Incra. And its all repeatable.

So Rachal, work out what you are making dovetails for because it may well influence how you want to make them

Doug

Definitely functional Doug. My biggest issue is storage and even though I can buy things, they don't fit my needs so I want to make things that do fit what I need.

So definitely functional dovetails...

Originally Posted by doug3030

Rachal, you mentioned dovetails for your drawers. You said you would do them by hand as you see tings at the moment.

Dovetails and be cut by hand or by using any number of woodworking machines utilizing various jigs and fixtures. I have cut dovetail joints, both tails and pins by hand, with a tablesaw, bandsaw, router and probably other ways I have forgotten.

I now classify dovetails into two categories: functional and ornamental.

Functional: These I define as the traditional use that the joint was originally designed for. Drawers is a classic example, particularly big drawers that will carry a lot of weight. I tend to hand-cut dovetails for large functional items, but sometimes it makes more sense to do it another way, usually the tablesaw or bandsaw, rarely the router, but sometimes it is still ok. In these items the dovetail is for strength and is usually out of sight behind a drawer front for example.

Ornamental: This is when the dovetails are mainly for appearance, not strength and functionality These are generally little boxes etc where the corners are the decorative feature of the object. For these, I pull out the incra jig and the router table and pull out contrasting pieces of wood and do double dovetails, dovetail corner posts, pinned dovetails, visible splines. On a project like this I can sit for hours selecting stock that will work well together with contrasting colours and grains. You can get really amazing results. There is nothing you can do with any router jig that you cannot duplicate by hand but the reverse does not apply, but for ornamental I can do it faster and neater on the Incra. And its all repeatable.

So Rachal, work out what you are making dovetails for because it may well influence how you want to make them

Doug

Ok Rachal,

One more on handcut dovetails, but then we better stop, this thread is in the routing forum.

You need to become acquainted with my friend Frank Frank Klausz, "Dovetail A Drawer" DVD intro - YouTube

Frank has a DVD on taunton press on handcut dovetails. If you dont know about Taunton Press Google it.

Doug

Thanks Doug, will have a look when I have a sec. Dealing with a sick child today. Yay for me.

Thanks again for the help though.......

By the way.. I won $22.95 on the powerball lol

So I brought tickets for tomorrows lotto lol Maybe I'll win $50 this time. lol

Thanks again

Originally Posted by doug3030

Ok Rachal,

One more on handcut dovetails, but then we better stop, this thread is in the routing forum.

You need to become acquainted with my friend Frank Frank Klausz, "Dovetail A Drawer" DVD intro - YouTube

Frank has a DVD on taunton press on handcut dovetails. If you dont know about Taunton Press Google it.

Doug

My you go offline for a few days and all these posts....

There are a couple of things directed specifically at me above. I'll try to answer them but if I've missed something please type a pointer. I'm on a laptop at the moment hiding in my bedroom from the miserable summer heat..

Ozito: I bought it many years ago specifically to see if I would use a router. I did, a lot and I bought the 2 tritons as a result. The ozito does the job but you have to tighten the collet as tight as you can to stop the bit drifting and it's generally not as nice to use. This is one of the things I want to show Rachel before she spends any money.

By the way bunnings have had a 3 pack for $99 recently, a cordless drill,screwdriver and fein multitool copy. No knowledge of the quality but looks a nice set.

Ozito are variable. The hilti copy is bulletproof and emminently suited to purpose, the mitre saws are apparently dangerous. I have an xu1 heat gun that cost me I think $15, perfectly good. Some tools are better bought in quality brands some don't matter.

I have sent my contact details to Rachel. I no longer work so I can be flexible about scheduling. Shed is still a disaster though. I'm recovering from the usual christmas disaster and suffering in the humidity. Getting old has few upsides...

Glad you gave us some insights into what you want to do. I wonder if you would be better off with a smaller hand held quality router used freehand, but either way we'll look at the options when you come over. Generally for larger work your better off bringing the tool to the job, and for very small work introducing the work to the tool, but there are lots of cases where that doesn't apply. I should be able to show you some options and you can take it from there. Maybe a trip to trade tools is in order to look at the makita range and see if anything appeals.

Anyway email me and we'll sort a time.

I happened to look at the carbatec catalogue today. If you buy a triton 2000 saw table and router table your up to a grand!!

For that money you would be a lot better off buying this:

TradeTools - 12M10A-TRADETOOLS 12" TABLE SAW 2HP ROUTER EXT/FENCE/SLIDING TABLE

$300 more but a really good machine. I really can't help but wonder if the triton table's time has passed. There are so many other options now for low money.

Anyway I've done some sorting in the shed today so I'll be available friday if that still suits.

Originally Posted by damian

I happened to look at the carbatec catalogue today. If you buy a triton 2000 saw table and router table your up to a grand!!

For that money you would be a lot better off buying this:

TradeTools - 12M10A-TRADETOOLS 12" TABLE SAW 2HP ROUTER EXT/FENCE/SLIDING TABLE

$300 more but a really good machine. I really can't help but wonder if the triton table's time has passed. There are so many other options now for low money.

Anyway I've done some sorting in the shed today so I'll be available friday if that still suits.

Damien, I agree with you for the major part. I started out with very basic tools and built a lot even before I got my triton gear. Triton was great value when it first came out because the good quality tablesaws were very expensive then.

Since those days, the quality of the taiwanese imports has improved immensely and the price has dropped enormously. If I was to be starting out now I would have bought what I have upgraded to over the last couple of years, cast iron topped 12" contractors saw and an incra router table and LS positioner.

Damien, I agree with you that the triton router table is a good idea that has run its course, but the triton routers themselves remain a very viable piece of equipment. I have sold my triton router table, I will not part with the routers. I will keep the wc2000. I cant throw the tableswa in the back of theute and take it to mum's place if I need to do some work for her, but I can do that with the triton. I wil not part with the maxi extention table or the 2 superjaws and 2 multistands either. But the router table and stand - already gone to a good home for a reasonable price, nothing like what it cost me but a fair price.

Hopefully others will pass their triton tables on to beginners to help them get started and maintain interest in our hobby, then when the new owners outgrow them they can do the same.

Doug