Thread: Buying tools overseas- not always as they seem.

I confess that I would be the world's worse tool-putter-awayer when returning tools to the vehicle after I have finished a job. Because of my "problem" I was after a set of drills 1/16"-1/4". Ebay had some Frost branded drills for 0.01cents with a postage of $16.50. I reckoned that $16.50 was not a bad price for the set. They were packaged with the Frost logo etc and the can drill timber,steel?, thats a different story. The drills came shaped to a cutting edge but not sharp. My eye sight is not good enough to see to sharpen the drills say from 1/8" down. I reckoned"You get what you pay for".
Only last month I needed to hang a door and misplaced a 25mm spade bit. Local hardware had a set of of 5- 10mm-30mm again prominently displaying the Frost name.. Put 25mm bit in drill.....run out galore. The whole set could mark a 3mm diameter circle on a surface by holding the bit above that surface while the drilling machine is turned on. Yes I did use them and said to myself again "You get what you pay for".(I also some years ago bought a set of spade bits in a wooden case. They were a gold colour. No brand name but definitely of Chinese origin. Out of the box the ran true and worked well. The edge would quickly wear but that was OK)

I did think for a minute that Mr Frost should know what is being sold, but I didn't.
Once upon a time Frost were as good as P&N and others, are they happy to sell substandard gear?

I think we are all to blame for the current situation because we are sucked into the thought that we are buying quality for not much money. Now we are bitten on the bum from our own doing

Originally Posted by chambezio

I

I think we are all to blame for the current situation because we are sucked into the thought that we are buying quality for not much money. Now we are bitten on the bum from our own doing

that applies to Bunnings, Mitre10 etc etc for that is what the average person is only wanting/willing to spend. The stores have to source cheaper and cheaper stuff to get their market share...we certainly are to blame

We aren't to blame when a box of drill bits that were made in China has "Sheffield, England" printed on the box.

I agree and I know the price should tip you off.
If you buy a set of Ching Chang drills you take your chances, but like you said we should not have to put up with being misled with drill sets of a quality maker being put on cheap pore quality ones.

I remember when the cheap Mitutoyo dial test indicators where being sold on ebay, Mitutoyo put up pictures on there site of how to tell a fake one.
Maybe thats what this company needs to do.

Dave

Originally Posted by chambezio

I confess that I would be the world's worse tool-putter-awayer when returning tools to the vehicle after I have finished a job. Because of my "problem" I was after a set of drills 1/16"-1/4". Ebay had some Frost branded drills for 0.01cents with a postage of $16.50. I reckoned that $16.50 was not a bad price for the set. They were packaged with the Frost logo etc and the can drill timber,steel?, thats a different story. The drills came shaped to a cutting edge but not sharp. My eye sight is not good enough to see to sharpen the drills say from 1/8" down. I reckoned"You get what you pay for".
Only last month I needed to hang a door and misplaced a 25mm spade bit. Local hardware had a set of of 5- 10mm-30mm again prominently displaying the Frost name.. Put 25mm bit in drill.....run out galore. The whole set could mark a 3mm diameter circle on a surface by holding the bit above that surface while the drilling machine is turned on. Yes I did use them and said to myself again "You get what you pay for".(I also some years ago bought a set of spade bits in a wooden case. They were a gold colour. No brand name but definitely of Chinese origin. Out of the box the ran true and worked well. The edge would quickly wear but that was OK)

I did think for a minute that Mr Frost should know what is being sold, but I didn't.
Once upon a time Frost were as good as P&N and others, are they happy to sell substandard gear?

I think we are all to blame for the current situation because we are sucked into the thought that we are buying quality for not much money. Now we are bitten on the bum from our own doing

Being a native of Maryborough victoria home of P and N [Patience and Nicholson],Mr frost was a manager of P and N.Branched out on his own in Ararat. just a bit of trivia Cheers John

Originally Posted by RayG

Just out of curiousity, is this the same Presto company that the POL gas fittings are named after? All australian gas bottles have POL ("Presto-lite") fittings as the standard for bbq lpg bottles.

Regards
Ray

Ray,

Unlikely there is any connection. In 1904 a company was formed in the USA to develop and manufacture small cylinders for compressed acetylene to replace the messy, finicky and potentially dangerous carbide generators which used calcium carbide and water to provide acetylene for vehicle headlights. The company was re-formed in 1906 and re-named Prest-O-Lite to emphasise the convenience of just turning on a tap to provide instant acetylene for the headlights. The company expanded considerably over the years, and merged with Union Carbide about 1917. This is almost certainly where the POL designation on Australian cylinders originated. There is a bit of company history here:

http://www.firstsuperspeedway.com/si...est-O-Lite.pdf

Regards,

Frank.

Originally Posted by j.ashburn

Being a native of Maryborough victoria home of P and N [Patience and Nicholson],Mr frost was a manager of P and N.Branched out on his own in Ararat. just a bit of trivia Cheers John

And now P & N is owned by Frost!

Dean

A couple of quick comments:

Frost is now made in China, and crap Chinese at that. My local bolt supply place has some on display as a cautionary tale. They refuse to sell them. P & N may still be good, but I suspect that they too are "value engineering" their drills.

Pete F bought me the complete blue box Presto set because he is afraid of me after I told him that Cruella and Mrs Mick Gatto are buds. (I am not one to look a gift underworld connection, no matter how nebulous, in the mouth)*

Anyway, the first drill that I drew from the well-made case was a 4.2...I have seen bananas with better posture. So I formed the opinion that they are junk. BUT, it turns out that I was too hasty in my judgement: tonight I had a critical look at the rest of them...they are all straight and sharp, so I now have high hopes that the other 99 drills are going to be as advertised.

Overseas buying can be fraught...certainly fakes abound. Today some of the usual suspects were over for my birthday and we were discussing a 100 pack of Sandvik hacksaw blades that I purchased. They are two stroke wonders...you can see the teeth rounding over as you take the second stroke. Clearly fakes. But who the hell would fake up 100 hacksaw blades in a plastic dispenser for $6 ? That don't sound like the get-rich-quick schemes that I hatch up.

Pssst...wanna buy a watch?

GQ

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

And now P & N is owned by Frost!

I'd be pretty certain that Frost is now part of Sutton Tools.

Frost

Originally Posted by Machtool

I'd be pretty certain that Frost is now part of Sutton Tools.

Frost

You are quite correct. I meant to say that P & N is owned by Sutton who also own Frost. I plead inebriation.

One possible way to check how good drills are these days is to see if they are advertised as capable of drilling stainless and alloy steels. The normal Sutton drills are not and are made in China whereas the Viper drills are and are still made in Oz last time I looked. I bought a set of 29 metric milwaukee drill bits just to try and they seem ok at $50. They are split point ground and drill stainless fine.

Dean

Originally Posted by Oldneweng

You are quite correct. I meant to say that P & N is owned by Sutton who also own Frost. I plead inebriation.

One possible way to check how good drills are these days is to see if they are advertised as capable of drilling stainless and alloy steels. The normal Sutton drills are not and are made in China whereas the Viper drills are and are still made in Oz last time I looked. I bought a set of 29 metric milwaukee drill bits just to try and they seem ok at $50. They are split point ground and drill stainless fine.

Dean

Hi everyone,yes Sutton own P and N and are controlled from NZ.Spoke to 2 reps Kiwi there when they had their clear out sale a few years back.as I said in one of my posts here the sale was a winner for the scrappies.Semi loads for about 100 dollars went straight to China via Melbourne.The 2 guys were horrified at the prices some things sold for.I did manage to rescue a couple of nice machines there.Any one want a nice big 5 ton Churchill Cylindrical Grinder?
When Boral owned the Pand N they purged the stores of all the slow moving stuff.Some of it still airs itself on E bay and at swap meets .NiB usually not badly priced.Just a couple of cents worth to the thread.John.

The last Sutton M6 set of taps I used I was disgusted in. They cost me $30 odd dollars for 3 and one was blunt strait out of the pack. One other one broke in a job just to easy.

I know they are Chinese, but the taps in sets of 3 from Hare and Forbes I am finding good value for money. I used the M8 tap on the 290 odd holes in the mild steel tool holders and adjusters I made along with using them a lot before hand. They are still going strong. The holes I drilled where for a full thread fit as well because I know the tool holder holes will wear over the years.

I have them from M3 up to M16 and they are all the same quality.

Dave

Originally Posted by Dave J

..........................
I remember when the cheap Mitutoyo dial test indicators where being sold on ebay, Mitutoyo put up pictures on there site of how to tell a fake one.
Maybe thats what this company needs to do.

Dave

I may have bought one of those. This was via ebay from a Chinese seller 5 or 6 years ago, it was just listed as a DTI, there was no mention of a brand in the ad and I was pleasantly surprised to find it was a Mitutoyo when it arrived.
At that time Mitutoyo had been banned by the Japanese government from exporting its products for a period and I assumed that this was a back door export.

I've just found the Mitutoyo fakes web page and there is no 'may' about it. Damn! That's the only piece of equipment I own with a recognisable brand name.

http://www.mitutoyo.com.sg/documents...flet%206pp.pdf

Originally Posted by Greg Q

Pssst...wanna buy a watch?

GQ

is it a Rolex...I only paid $7.00 for the last one...and that was a dive watch...water proof to 150m...I swear

It had never occured to me that they will go to extreme ...fake drills, hacksaws etc
even after the post on counterfeit bearings sometime back