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18th November 2014, 11:42 PM #16
I have considered exactly this several times now. Makes my head hurt every time.
For those not familiar with the FP2LB there is a tilting, swivelling, rotating table (i.e. 3 axis of motion) and a head with two axis of rotation, so, 5 ways to become confused, disorientated and otherwise delusional.
Fortunately most universal mills have a horizontal spindle which is pretty square to the dovetails/ways. The conclusion I have come to is that for accurate tramming you have to get something square to that horizontal axis, first. This I think is likely to be the table. Attempting to get a 2 axis head square to the horizontal spindle?? well beyond me, but hey I'm a noob here. Once the table is squared you can get the head squared. I think I'd choose the rotation and swivel first followed by the tilt.
If you have set the machine up for that one job (yea, that one, the one you bought the tilting, swivelling rotating table and the 2 axis universal head for, and you have used all of those motions), well it ain't going to be a 30 second job to tram everything back in. If you have to keep the setup on the table while you do this, well, just another little challenge. Might even be beer o'clock by the time you get done. In order to speed the process up I wonder if using a good level to get you in the ball park might help??
Some people might wonder why you would need 5 axis of adjustment. Some people consider having 5 axis of motion an indication of insanity and some us know it's actually much worse than that.
I reserve the right to be completely wrong about any of the above and I think I need a rotary table??
Cheers
The Beryl BlokeEquipmenter.... Projects I own
Lathes - Sherline 4410 CNC
Mills - Deckel FP2LB, Hardinge TM-UM, Sherline 2000 CNC.
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19th November 2014, 05:45 AM #17SENIOR MEMBER
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Hi Michael,
how did it go, did you managed to get the table back to square or were you just looking for methods.
Phil
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19th November 2014, 05:48 AM #18SENIOR MEMBER
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19th November 2014, 06:54 AM #19Philomath in training
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Currently I'm just lining the table up using the graduations around the table. I think (having measured when kicked around at other angles) that it is very close and if I check a cut I make with a square it confirms that.
I really wanted to see whether anyone had a technique that was fast, simple and accurate. The gadget that Kryn posted as noted is for a vertical axis. While it could be used for squaring the table it would require breaking down any set up as well as some tooling to indicate on so is not ideal. I've also wondered how the two DIs are synchronised on them as that seems to be the key to the advantage that the jig has over other methods. I find I get good and quick results with a back indicating DI (Starrett 196) but in this situation the back indication would make things more awkward.
Peter* has mentioned a straight forward way to do it but typically I'd be chasing fractions of a degree to improve on what I currently do so repeatable and accurate mounting of the parallel against the column becomes critical. Not sure how to do that at the moment without the possibility of introducing other errors. It also relies on the spindle being spot on square to the column too - I'd need to check that assumption out as well.
Mounting a DI in the spindle and indicating off a parallel mounted on the table will not necessarily show anything as the table will (should be) always be the same relative distance away from the table regardless of the table angle
*And Phil - see my post below.
Michael
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19th November 2014, 08:02 AM #20SENIOR MEMBER
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Hi Michael,
Have a look at post #6.
Just mount the DI on the table and reach the pointer over to the dovetails of the column (the flat sections facing the table). Winding the table back and forwards will indicate any error.
If you put the indicator which can be mounted on a magnetic base roughly in the middle of the table, adjustments to the table should be pretty straight forward.
Setting up the trimming rig is easy. With the indicators mounted on the rig, and the pointers hanging out, place the rig on your surface plate and compress the pointers, set the dials to zero by turning the face rotating thingy, I forget what it is called, bezel maybe, and you are good to go.
The DI's don't have to be in the same amount, they just have to both read zero when compressed.
Hope this helps.
Phil
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19th November 2014, 09:20 AM #21SENIOR MEMBER
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19th November 2014, 02:46 PM #22Senior Member
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My Thiel has a universal table similar to that on Bob's Schaublin which has tapered aligning holes that set the table to a zero position when a corresponding tapered pin is knocked into them. There is a similar hole in the vertical head which sets it to be trammed in the vertical position and I think also at 90⁰. The table pin is just a simple tapered rod however I suspect the pin for the vertical head would have incorporated some sort of jacking mechanism as there is no access to knock it back out again (a project for a quiet afternoon one day).
I was initially dubious as to how well this system would work but having used them a few times and checked the alignment afterwards they get everything back pretty much dead nuts.
I was just wondering if a similar system might be present on the rotational axis of Michaels universal mill, it might be worth having a look for any unexplained holes in the bottom of the centre t-slot?
Cheers,
Greg.
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19th November 2014, 03:21 PM #23Intermediate Member
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Like Greg's Theil, the Stanko toolroom mill I left behind in Perth had tapered pins for bringing things back into alignment. It might be worthwhile doing something similar when you manage to get the universal mill back into correct tram.
The Stanko tapered pins had an extended thread on the fat end and when inserted to full depth the tapered portion ended up recessed so that when extraction was needed a nut tightened down pulled the pin out. Very simple but effective.
Peter
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19th November 2014, 06:58 PM #24Philomath in training
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