Thread: Tig ticket 7

Gday
Here is another video without a root face[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8L8f6OD52aA&feature=related"]YouTube - welders greek 1[/ame] this is all i had to go on before my practical exam my peno wasn't good enough so i had to try something different

Guys

I can well understand where Rushy is coming from.More than likely he was trained to a City and Guilds ticket-( I think thats what the Brits call it).

If its that,be assured that this bloke knows what he is talking about.

Captn Caveman
Your Cert 7, if it was AS 1797 never ever entertained a knife edge.AS1796 is the Code for testing Certification of Welders. Root gap and landing was specified within in a slightly variable range-no knife edges ever.

Was your Ticket issued by the Welding Technology Institute of Australia? The big dollars for the exam sounds like them.

I should know as I was a founding Office holder of the then Welding Institute for the Gladstone branch in the mid 80s.I left the organisation when it became apparent to me their interest was more financially centred in themselves then in upgrading welding skills of the welding trades population in general.

With regard to Rushy's comment about the riggers and grinders. Riggers set up pipes to be lifted by the crane and direct crane drivers to position them.
A rigger with a grinder is suggestive of a cowboy outfit to me.
A half decent welder does not allow someone else to do the pipe preps.One could easily lose a hard won reputation from failing a weld over someone else's shoddy weld preparation.

While I did not do much Tig on the shop floor I conducted many Cert 7 courses and examined many others as a certified assessor for the WH &S here in Qld for a decade in Tafe .

I can categorically state that I never saw a knife edge prep in that time.

Rushy,
Don't get the Zhits with these guys as we need more experienced blokes like yourself to set the new guys straight.

There are welding techniques and other knowledge that are not written down in any text book that will die with us if we don't pass them on.
What do reckon mate?

Grahame

Nearly 50 years of welding fumes, wet trenches,confined spaces,asbetos,caustic,cyanide,apprentices etc etc tend to make any individual a tiny bit cranky at times.I strongly believe in the Australian system of welder certification and weld testing,it is the best system in the world and it is great to see and hear of guys doing the courses,but I have to admit it gets up my nose when the zhit starts to fly.The City and Guilds and our Australian Tickets are a licence to learn welding.then you learn from the guys you work with and the NATA welding inspectors and engineers you meet on the job,mostly you learn from the mistakes you make,but you never stop learning.lesson one is all the rules are written down in the welding codes the codes are the bible,buy them carry them with you they are our law.lesson two if you pick your nose on the way home from work and the stuff on your finger is not edible you are doing the wrong thing,look after your lungs look after your eyes.when you get a weld defect find out from the NATA guy where you went wrong and dont do it again.its that simple.
thanks Graham I always look at your advice and comments on the site you do a great job.

Gday
I had tafe again tonight and decided to pose the question again to my mate (rigger/boilermaker)and yet again he tells me he prepped the pipe with a grinder and pulls out his iphone and shows me the photos and goes on to tell me there was no room for a bevelling machine i also had a word to the apprentice welder and he said most of the welders now use a knife edge i've asked him to send me the pics.
my cert is as1796 perform welds to code standard using gas tungsten arc welding process certification 1-9 workcover is now the testing body
they also said most prepping was done by the boilermakers the welders job was just that weld, now you would expect a big company like that to perform welds to code standard are you saying that caltex is employing cowboys ??
thanks caveman

Gday
Here's another video that might be of help to some [ame="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x87nhc_learn-tig-welding-from-the-welders"]Dailymotion - Learn TIG welding from the welders lens TIG welding videos - a News & Politics video[/ame]
thanks caveman

When I done my last test im pretty sure all of the fellas doing tig there used a knife edge

Gday old fella
I'll admit the teachers will tell you to put a root face on but me being a little pig headed i tried without on the 2g and it helped me get the peno i needed.
anyway the teacher has a copy of the welding codes and i will double check with him whether a knife edge is allowed.
thanks caveman

Its my experience also that a number of the blokes sitting there pressure tickets @ our TAFE also prep with a knife edge I might add that in the last ticket that was sat those that did all passed.............

The best bit of advise that i got from an old timer was that theres more than one way to skin a cat N that in the field you'll learn a lot a short cuts that i'll get the job done fast to X-Ray Spec............The welds n prep mightnt be as 'dainty' as a text book prep but they do the job and last just as well 'in service' as other methods ripped straight out of the text book.....................

The last bloke i had a yarn to who talked about prepping with a knifes edge said he did so because 9 times out of ten he got better Peno! He was trained by a local outfit that ships in a gang of koreans to do all their Tig pressure welding jobs ...............

He said they were guns and could really pump out runs fast he noted that they all tended to prep with a landing but to date couldnt work out how they obtained great consistent peno coupled with phenomenal welding speeds?????

I suspect preping with a landing might have something to do with their technique. he said he just couldnt pull off the peno without using a knife edge.......................

All im saying is that theres a number of ways (usually) to achieve the same ends. But poor technique and bad prep will eventually come back to bite you on the %%$^#**#*@

My approach is to try and get into good habits early n be prepared to struggle through the learning kerve so that i can develop the skills to pump out any weld prepped any way thats required ...................as fast as i can.........................to spec

Regards LOu

So far what I have seen here in this thread are references to the edge prep work.No mention of other methods.
As Lou says there are other ways to skin a cat.
how so? Well!!!, Filler wire placement for starters.Filler wire diameter is another.

Where and how the filler wire is placed makes a great deal of difference to the root bead.Root beads with too small a landing are prone to suckback and other defects.

Everyone should be aware of suckback ,what it is and how it is avoided.

Suck back is a condition where the weld metal has contracted as it cools and has been drawn up into the root of the weld.Heat input (amps and Tungsten diameter) and landing are a major factor. It causes any number of test failures.

I found that using a filler wire of sufficient diameter and using a tangential approach that fed into the SIDE of the molten pool bulged the pool and prevented the suckback.

I went and found my old AS 1796 code book and it listed in Table 4.4 page 35 that the Cert 7 root landing 0-3mm.My apologies I was wrong on that one but the fact remains ,not one of the cert 7 Tig students (and I have run that several times ) used a knife edge landing.

Again its the little bits of info the Pros understand and they are not written in a text book anywhere.

The Korean guys that Lou mentioned, obviously recognise that use of a landing edge and that is a telling point seeing that they can do the weld in record time.It seems that welding procedures and a good knowledge of AS1796 are falling away in the training.The test is harder than getting a car licence and people study from the road rules for their test, but do they buy a as welders cert code and learn it, to pass the prac welding test, no,seems not?

Grahame

Gday
I just thought i'd add another youtube video
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Be3msl9X_sw"]YouTube - ‪Killa Chris Killin' Em‬‎[/ame]

In the above vid posted by Capt Caveman

Note!!! the tangential angle of the filler wire to the torch.That's what I was referring to in the post I made, for the root pass. That's how you you get the root bead section profile.

I like the oscillating technique - very smooth action. I like the man's flexibility in being able to work on pipe that close to the ground and achieve the finish.I once worked with a bloke that could get that finish off the stick, but that's all he ever did.

As Rushy alluded to,its easy in perfect training shop conditions, but try welding a in a trench thats in hot desert conditions and a snake magnet as well.the pros do it day in,day out.

Did not like the flap wheel finish to the cap weld much.If you have to polish or grind ,you have something to hide.

The flap wheel applied to the pipe before the cap weld is legitimate as the pipe coating and rust are not compatible with the fusion interface edges of the cap weld, but not over the finished cap .But hey! Thats just my opinion.

Minimal use of the grinder is the mark of the gun welder.

and wait for it! -









hated the C rap music.

Grahame

I cant see no flap wheel finish on the cap, u can see the pattern from him walking the cup. Or are u talking about the bright bit near the toes

Yes old fella,
It looks very much like it, as you can see ripple pattern in the center but not the edges for as the much of the circumference as is visible.

Possibly its a photo - light thing, but that would be localised and this affect is on every part of the fusion edge I can see.
One thing the Americans are very good at is self promotion.
The point I would make is that there welders as good and better in this country.

Grahame

Yeah I noticed that but none of the area beside it was shiny so i didnt think it was ground or flapper disc, may of used a cut of wheel around the edge.